Pouting Thomas
I've been defending Frank Thomas lately in our comments sections, so I'll man-up and admit that there's a chance I've was wrong on this one.
Maybe. But I still kind of don't think so.
Thomas will hit. To me, it remains ridiculous to write him off for looking ugly in April, when that's been the story of the last two years, both of which turned out really well. But I understand why the Jays did. . .
If Thomas couldn't accept being dropped in the order or benched until he could consistently contribute to the offence instead of being a giant black hole in the most important part of the lineup, what else are the Jays supposed to do? Keep carrying a disgruntled, benched Hall-of-Famer who's not shy about venting through the media and who pulled some bush league bullshit as his final act with the team by not participating in the post-game handshake? Keep plugging away with Thomas in the lineup until he gets his shit together? Or do you cut bait?
Fans would hope they could strike some kind of balance between the first two choices, but obviously Frank was having none of that. He had to be an everyday, middle-of-the-lineup player or... um... what exactly?
He'd start spiking Roy Halladay's coffee with Ex-Lax? Vernon Wells would find shaving cream under the door handle of his car? AJ's stash of OxyContin would start disappearing? I mean, what could Thomas really have done besides sulking?
But if you're JP and you actually believe that he would have somehow cost the team games by being a distraction, or you think that it isn't right to let a surefire Hall-of-Famer ride out his last season on your bench-- or, say... you really fucking wanted to save ten million dollars-- you could toss him out with the garbage and still quite reasonably explain that with his lack of production, the vesting option in his contract ticking closer with each plate appearance, and with Adam Lind killing the ball in Syracuse, ready to be another much-needed lefty in the lineup, the decision sort of made itself.
Hey maybe JP heard the insane Wilner caller from the other night who said the Jays need a rookie who has to prove himself!
Anyway, I can't help but think that there will be a point in the second half where we think to ourselves, imagine how much better off we'd be if Frank Thomas was still here. At the same time I'm completely sure that the Jays would loved to have given Frank his money next year, if only he had earned it.
Posts
46 comments:
Well, I thought Lind would have been the logical choice, but they went with Diaz instead. Apparently three catchers are necessary so Barajas can be used as the DH.
Or perhaps JP should actually man-up and sign Bonds, and they won't have to use catchers in the DH spot.
Lind is hurt, stiff neck or something. That's the only reason he didn't get the call I think.
In all this talk of Bonds I have to wonder at what price he'll play for us. I find it hard to believe he would accept an incetive deal and honestly I can't see him signing anywhere for less than 15mil.
At that rate you're paying 25 million for a strict DH. That is counting what we are paying Thomas to gank it at home. Assuming it doesn't take him 2 months to get his rhythm back.
I have a hard time seeing Ted going for that. If someone like Mel Lastman of Frank D'Angelo owned the team I could see them doing it because he would surely take part in their Bad Boy and Cheetah campaigns. I can just see the photo gallery on the official website now. "Johnson and Bonds delight fans at Dean Myers Chev-Olds in North York"
I kinda think Diaz won't stay that long. Once Lind is over this sore neck (he sat out again today) and plays a few games, he's probably on his way up. I'd expect him to get most of the time in LF, with Stairs and Stewart platooning at DH. I don't think Barajas as a right-handed DH is something we'll see consistently through the year, and Diaz would be better off getting consistent AB's with the Chiefs.
There's actually logic here.
Basically, he's untradeable cause no one wants the 10 million option (and of how the situation was handled).
But more importantly, you can't release a player right near their PA threshold for an incentive based contract, otherwise he can file and probably win a grievance. This way, the Jays are completely off the hook from the 10 million next year, which is bad and can be used for Rafel Furcal (or whoever). And they get rid of an unhappy distraction, and they have a good hitter to replace him in Adam Lind. Thomas is also immobile and really may be done. He's easily replaceable as the RH side of a platoon with a lefty masher (but Barajas is not the answer).
So paying 18 million for 1 year of a decently producing DH isn't the end of the world. It's called realizing a sunk cost. But hopefully they're right, and he really isn't that good anymore. He may be okay, but if they find a Craig Wilson or whoever, or are just happy with Lind and Stairs in the lineup more often, then its fine. And he certainly isn't worth the 10 million next year. Also, there's always Barry Bonds to fall back on just in case.
I'm actually happy about this move, also cause Adam Lind now has a future in Toront, right now.
I just can't wait to hear David from Saskatchewan's take on this.
I am slightly disappointed that there was no mention of the elephant in the room.
Damn it, I am salivating over the thought of having Barry Bonds. But this is like the feeling in your pants when you see a high class hooker looking in your direction from afar. Anyways, Bonds has stated that he isn't retiring. And no one has been paying attention to him. Which means money probably shouldn't be an issue (1 mill for 1 year? 5, 10 a most) But then again, that would probably be worse than a slap in the face to Thomas.
Speaking of Thomas, the Detroit announcers were hammering Thomas' deteriorating skills on Friday. Gary Denbo probably doesn't like what he sees. And even Jeff Blair is ready to admit it. And in Chicago, Kenny Williams can smirk once again.
The thing that really pisses me off though, is that who are we to side with? Frank "I'm a 40 year old Hall Of Famer Start Me Or Fuck You" Thomas, or John "I beat up players who talk shit" Gibbons, & J.P. "I always tell the truth, even when I lie" Ricciardi
http://www.sportsbybrooks.com/the-big-hurt-will-no-longer-need-his-passport-17292
I think this is essential viewing.
So stoeten, you like frank and you like JP?
Make up your mind.
Oh how was the homo rassling? Did it make you and Parkes feel closer?
You aren't Wilner, you are Stoeten.
Get used to it and follow your soul.
Looks like Mr. "Stay within yourself" just got outed.
The whole problem here was the idiotic contract, specifically a very easily-vesting option for 2009. If not for that, they would have kept Frank here I think. I still cannot figure out why JP added that third year - it's hard to believe the market for Thomas was that big, given that it was restricted only to AL teams with a DH need and $ to spend.
Hey everyone, he sucked, it doesn't have to go deeper. Why does he suck April-May? Cuz he doesn't care enough to be ready by Spring. Saying that's just the way it is, is garbage. Good riddance.
That big? The market for Thomas was virtually nonexistent. That contract was insane. I feel bad for Thomas here and I think the Jays handled it in a typical Godfrey/JP kind of douchey way. That said, I can completely understand why they cut him loose. But again, it was JP's bonehead decision to give him that contract in the first place. 18 fucking million for one year!
Meanwhile, cutting Johnson is looking really bad in light of this. Call me crazy but I don't see Adam Lind as a starter. Something about him is wrong.
18 fucking million for one year
well, I used to be a fan of this blog, but anonymous 2:12 AM's comments really have me thinking otherwise now. Very thorough and convincing. Give yourslef a pat on the back for that insight. Stoeten <> Wilner? Who knew.
who cares about the money for fuck's sake?
bring in that monster melon, raison sacked, freak-show that is Barry Bonds and get him to mash the ball around the Rog... how fucking sweet would that be!?
Yea, and bring in corked bats, new undetectable drugs, teach the pitchers to doctor the baseball, pay off the umpires and do whatever else it takes to win.
Fuck Bonds. He's a cocksucker.
I love how assholes will boo the shit out of him until they think about having him on their team. Horeshit.
What are they going to do with all them Frank Thomas bobbleheads for the May 25th game?
I've never booed Bonds. Yes, he's an asshole, and it's 99% likely that he knowingly took steroids, but he was an All-Star and a MVP before any of that. Getting bigger doesn't help you hit a baseball, and you have to respect the guy for arguably being the most feared hitter ever. The walk totals are rediculous. Can you imagine a Jay getting intentionally walked with the bases loaded? Have we ever had anyone like that. (uh, no!) I don't really want to argue the morality of what Bonds has done, or even if he would detract from the cuddly-ness of this team. I just think sticking him in the middle of this lineup would instantly make the whole lineup more dangerous. Imagine what kind of pitches Rios would see in front of him. Imagine the RBI opportunities for Wells behind him. Imagine the pitches Bonds would see if Rios and or Hill are on base and the pitcher couldn't walk Bonds because Vernon looks to be back in form. I know this, there would be a little bit of swagger to the offense which would be a nice change compared to the inconsistancy we live with now. I think Boston and NY would surely take notice. Isn't anyone else as desperate as I am to see this team back in the playoffs again? Shouldn't they pull out all the stops? Do we really think Adam Lind in the lineup makes it better than adding Bonds? Money is the only reason I would see to not do this. If he would sign for 5 mil and agre to address the team and do a song and dance about just wanting to contribute and win a championship, I am 1000% in favor of pulling the trigger.
"Getting bigger doesn't help you hit a baseball, and you have to respect the guy for arguably being the most feared hitter ever.
Yes it does, and no I don't.
Look, Bonds' numbers demonstrably and dramatically improved in what would, for most non-steroid-taking people, be the twilight of his career. Dude could always hit the best pitching in the world from the moment he entered the league, so that "steroids don't help you recognize a breaking pitch or get around on a fastball" stuff doesn't wash.
But when he got bigger, he hit the ball farther and harder than he ever did before. He went from a 40 HR guy who could play the outfield and steal bases to a 73 HR who couldn't play the outfield or steal bases. Ignoring whether that was of net benefit to his team, it is the case.
So yes, he has become one of the most feared hitters ever. But he was already a Hall of Famer before taking the Cream and the Clear. I would have respected his legendary ability before any of this crap, notwithstanding his general douchebagginess. I don't have to respect him anymore.
What sort of ridiculous black and white world do you live in, anonymous anonymous? So I can't acknowledge that the issue here is a more complicated than something where you could just side with one person or the other? JP did well to get rid of the burden of next year's contract, but at the expense of a whole lot of second-half production that he just couldn't wait for unless Frank was allowed to find his swing while playing sporadically (or maybe lower in the lineup?) which he absolutely wouldn't do and made that very clear after Saturday's game. I think Frank is being ridiculous and JP a bit rash and a bit too concerned about the money, but all things considered, this seems to be a reasonable parting of the ways-- especially considering how Lind is performing. Whose side are you on? Your other bullshit, I don't care to answer.
And to clarify, yes, Lind is hurt but it's not serious and he will be up as soon as he's ready. He'll play LF every day, Stairs and Stewart will move their platoon to DH, though maybe Barajas will get in there sometimes, but he'll most likely go back to being the backup catcher once Diaz goes down and Lind is ready.
On Bonds, I'm going to go ahead and throw in that extra percent in regards to him doing steroids. But everybody was doing steroids, he just did it better than most, and started from a whole lot higher level than most. Yes, he's a giant asshole and I wouldn't want to have to cheer for him, but he very, very definitely could help this team. However, like it's already been pointed out, the Jays still have $10 MM invested at DH, and that's not going away, and to add whatever Barry would require to the budget would probably be too much. Plus, the Jays seem to be very reluctant to cross Bud Selig, who I think clearly would prefer that Bonds didn't play. I imagine that goes back to those equalization payments to the Jays when the dollar was worth 67 cents US, and is probably why the Jays never go over slot in the draft and would probably be one of the last teams to do so, according to Keith Law. So... it's just definitely not going to happen with Bonds.
Plus, Bonds numbers took a dive. He walks a shitload, but is likely to hit only 20-24 homers with a 270 avg. per his last couple seasons. He's not 2001-2004 Barry Bonds.
He's a gamble, especially at 12M. The risk, and likely the cost to insure him are probably fair detractors in their own right.
Mike from Ottawa - If you were pitching to him, you'd have to respect him. If I (or you) were Giants fans, you would have loved him for his numbers, and turned the other cheek to the other stuff. Athletes these days are basically gladiators. I don't really care what these guys do off the field, so long as it's not running old ladies down for fun in their Escalades....even though the thought of that is mildly amusing.
Stoeten - I realize this is a million to one long shot, but it says here that Bonds' agent has had "numerous discussions with Toronto."
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2004362498_albeat21.html
Granted it also says the jays have no interest, but why then would the quantity of the discussions be "numerous." Anything is possible...
Here's the thing on Thomas -- if he played for the Yankees or BoSox, they could wait for him to become productive in July because of their line-ups.
The Jays need him to be productive now, or else they're an also-ran by July.
It was the right thing to do.
stedron -- sure, I'd respect his ability to launch one into another area code if I was on the mound against him. That's a different kind of respect than I was thinking of in my first comment, though.
I'm not so naïve as to think that there aren't dozens of other guys (or if you listen to Canseco, like, hundreds of them) who do/have done steroids too. And I'm not an old-school traditionalist who gets all misty-eyed at the thought of eating crackerjacks with the old man on a summer day watching untainted men play the grand old game.
In fact, I think the reason I watch so much baseball and football is because of the "gladiator" aspect. There are some things that take place on an MLB diamond or an NFL field that none of us could step on to the same field and do. Any idiot can get lucky and sink a half-court shot or sink a 65-foot putt; we've probably all done it once. But if asked to drive a 96 mph fastball into the seats or tackle a 245 lb. running back, many would either literally or figuratively shit their pants.
But to the point at hand on Bonds, I agree with stoeten: he did the juice, and better than most with a higher jumping-off point. I suppose I just still find it a bit distasteful when people make what seem to be excuses for it, even when we all know what the reality has been in the game as a whole.
I agree with all of that. I'm just not above reaping whatever risidual benefits are left in his tank. I believe the lineup would be better with him in there, so I want him. Regardless of how unrealistic the possibility may be. I'm only looking at this from a production standpoint because this offense drives me almost as crazy as having to endure Boston and New York fans for what seems like an eternity.
Seems to me like a solution looking for a problem, though. Right now, the team hasn't been hitting very well with an extraordinarily poor-hitting Thomas in the lineup. So you release Thomas, and replace him with someone who is highly unlikely to hit any worse than he did. Probably the replacement will be better, and give the team a touch of defensive depth too (Bonds doesn't do that).
Even as maddening as the offense has been, we're over .500 and the division isn't running away from us early. Maybe we get better with someone from within the system in Frank's spot, but it's hard to imagine getting worse. As it has been simplistically put elsewhere, this is addition by subtraction, no?
I'd rather give Lind a chance for a while, at a much lower cost and much lower risk, than immediately run out and sign Bonds. The cost of Lind right now is zero, and the cost of Bonds is considerably more than zero, with no guarantees you'll get the fearsome basher you're looking for anyway. I'm prepared to be patient for a while longer -- besides, Bonds isn't going anywhere.
Agreed that Bonds isn't going anywhere. That's a good point. I just didn't want to see them call Lind up, have him struggle, then have to send him back down. That would possibly hurt him long term. I think they will be ready to throw him out there next year and tell him it's his job. That just seems like a better situation for him.
Boston is mildly running away with the division. They really should be in a hole after the schedule they had to start with and getting swept by the Jays. The fact that they are in 1st place already is bad news. The Yankees pitching is doing what I thought it would, but after the resurrection they pulled off last year, they still worry me. The best news has been the Indians and Tigers slow start which is good for the Jays wild card chances. This team has to go on some runs though. It seems like they do whatever they can do to stay around .500. Whether that means win a few, or lose a few.
It's hard to give JP any credit for releasing Frank and saving money next year, when it was his idea in the first place to put this insane contract in place.
Cutting Frank was essential, but signing him in the first place was not a good move.
Hey Guys,
Not only did I see a Drunk Jays Fans link on the Yahoo.ca article, but Wilner also mentioned Stoeten in his latest blog. Slowly but surely, DJF are taking over the world.
Yahoo.ca? Dude, what's the link?
I'm not sure if this will let me post the entire link. But if it doesn't work, it's on the MLB page of Yahoo.ca. I think it's "Big League Stew"/
http://ca.sports.yahoo.com/mlb/blog/big_league_stew/post/To-be-Frank-Thomas-wasn-t-long-for-Toronto;_ylt=AkPb66e1ehseOKAfPUjAJZIBbgM6?urn=mlb,78052
An edited quote no less. Congrats!
wow, yahoo.ca. I'm very envious. It seems like only yesterday I was being sexually harassed by you guys.
Boston isn't running away with the divsion. "Mildly running away" would be like a slow jog.
And not AJ's oxycontin! Anything but that! How would he find his curve?
Joanna - Which makes it all the more frustrating. They are "slow jogging" out in front of us, meanwhile the Jays offense just fell out of it's wheelchair.
Meh. Big League Stew? Meh.
It's just the first step towards world domination. Before you know it, Griffin will be bowing at your feet and you'll be blowing off phone calls from Ivanka Osmack.
There's lots of fun stuff we don't tell everybody about.
Oh, and we'll gladly keep on sexually harassing you, sugar tits.
I'm totally fine with Thomas being let go. They Jays could do without his rally-killing K's with men on base.
cause there's lot's of other guys hanging around to do the same .
And I am of the belief that amongst all the anti-semitism in Mel Gibson's rant, sugar tits was an underapreciated bon-mots.
See, now that's exactly the kind of comment that will keep you getting sexually harassed.
My concern is that this fiasco will deter other free agents from wanting to come to Toronto in the future.
Hey, maybe once Lind comes up, "a rookie with something to prove will be here! That's all we need!"
Har-dee-har-har... What an idiot.
Post a Comment