Six to Eight Weeks
It's way too nice out to sit here typing out reasons why it fucking sucks that Vernon Wells' wrist is broken and is going to keep him on the shelf for six to eight weeks (FYI, consider the lying fucks who are making that pronouncement and figure it's most likely eight). The only two things I'll say about it before cracking a beer and heading out to sit in the sun are these:
a) at least there's no possible way that this team could hit any worse than it already is, and b) I hope to fuck that injuries don't give JP another get out of having-your-fucking-ass-fired free card.
And I say that as someone who defends JP way more often than not. I think we've seen enough of this team that, injuries or no, they've got to turn it around or else the GM should pay the price. And no, that's not different from my usual stance that it's still early to draw conclusions about 2008, which always seems to piss people off to no end. It is still early to say that there's no hope for this club, but it's not at all too early to say that if they keep playing like this, shit's got to change. Beer time.
Update
OK... not quite beer time yet. According to the Fan 590's update, Jeremy Accardo has also been sent to the DL with a bout of right arm shittiness.
This means that Armando Benitez is coming! Also, if you're concerned about mediocre ballplayers having to repeat tedious tasks, you'll probably want to give a quick thought to Joe Inglett, and hope he had yet to unpack his shit when he got to Syracuse. He's coming back to the Jays as well.
Second Update
Hmm... and one more thing before I go. Couldn't help but notice that the first comment on Wilner's post about this situation was, "Wow... it's truly over now."
I'd like to be up front about saying, um... fuck anybody dumb enough to think that this is the end of the Jays season. And if it turns out that in five months we can look back and figure that indeed this was the day the season died, it still wouldn't make it any fucking less stupid to be thinking that right now. It's shitty, though. It sure is fucking shitty...
Posts
76 comments:
Vern was actually kind of hitting a bit, so the hitting can get worse. I predict Overbay goes down tonight...as he was also showing signs of life....that way we'll have all kinds of heavy DL woes to blame this season's...um, err...invitable....
there i said it..failures on. Oh well, i wonder how big of a wad of Redman Mench'll jam into his mug this time? Jesus he has a giant cranium. Kevin 'Bison Head aka Tatonka' Mench.
Wow....it's truly over now.
b) I hope to fuck that injuries don't give JP another get out of having-your-fucking-ass-fired free card.
Why are you bringing this up now and not when the team was playing (and still is) like shit? It sounds like you're blaming the injury on JP.
I hope this means Lind is coming back up. We can't replace Vernon with Brad Wilkerson playing every day, ugh.
Last time I checked, we are 5 games out of 1st. We have 125 games to make up 5 games. It's mind boggling how quickly some people dump this team like a prom date that says shes pregnant.
If we lost Roy Halladay and Shawn Marcum then I'd be selling off on this season and supporting a firesale. In the end, we have the depth to deal with the loss of any position player... our lack of depth is in the starting rotation.
Since it's the only thing I can do, I'm building a voodoo shrine of health. I hope my '93 Blue Jays team signed baseball is a good talisman.
I hate to say it but when you have a full line up and your Starters are pitching lights out night after night, you have to win those games.
It's a long season...blah blah blah. Yeah it is, and you don't have everyone in the lineup all the time. You can't waste opportunities like that because it's unrealistic to expect it to continue all season.
The time is now to start the Sign Bonds Letter Campaign.
Aaron Hill not playing. I wonder if it's because he got plunked last night.
Toronto Blue Jays games played so far: 37
Aaron Hill games played so far: 37
It's a night off.
has rios gotten a ball out of the infield to lead off a game this year?
Yes he has. In his first game leading off, against the Royals.
He needs to stop being a pitcher's bitch real soon though.
what a fucking brittle wrist Dr Evil has....i guess when your in the show you dont have to jerk off to strengthen that fag like wrist...we are doomed.....save us wilkerson!
Don't think he has, just like he can't be bothered to actually run to first.....guess he'll pull his mangina if he tries that hard. Or maybe for 80 million he can run to 1st.
FUCK
@Anon 7:17. If your wrist is so strong I want to see you do that and not walk away with a broken wrist.
Blame Vernon for diving... not for what happened after he made that decision. That's a playoff play... not a May Play.
Dustin is getting slashed to death. I'm going to have to get some intoxicants into me to deal with this one.
I. Hate. Baseball.
huh, so if their pitching shits the bed, do they have a chance? i hope my negativity is proven wrong, this would be a nice time to pull a comeback. oh, nice fielding by wilk too
The situation is unfortunate, but it's injuries that is holding us back from the top of the American League East. Don't blame me, blame injuries. It was injuries.
Injuries.
These fucking injuries.
While Wilkerson is playing hot potato in right field, Mench's noggin looks like a swollen spud in left.
Morgan Ensberg is player 3B for the Yankees... Their starting catcher is Jose Molina. They have no pitchers... Their fans are going nuts I bet... Let's not be like Yankee fans.
who said we were sanitation workers?
You know who is to blame for all of this? Kevin Mench. Let me explain my theory:
First off, I should remind everyone that Kevin Mench, when playing for the Rangers, was the fuckin punk that hit that line drive that broke Roy Halladay's leg.
In the top of the 4th, Scott Rolen and Wells singled, now no outs with first and second. If Mench does something remotely productive, instead of hitting into a fucking inning killing double play, the Jays would have at least more than a run on the board. Now that changes the whole complexion of the game.
Therefore, in the bottom of the sixth, the Jays would not be so tight, with maybe 2, 3 runs on the board at least. Instead, with catalyst Grady Sizemore on first, Wells feels the pressure to make a critical catch. That critical catch broke his fuckin wrist. If the Jays are up 3, Wells and Halladay don't feel that pressure to play tight.
So it all comes down to Kevin Mench and his shit hitting. That double play changed the whole complexion (sp) of the game, and now the Jays are without the Centre piece of the team.
But the good news is that Mench will have more playing time. Selfish asshole. If he doesn't play like a Right Handed Matt Stairs, then this signing was a curse.
Would you hire someone, who a couple of years back, broke your hardest worker's leg?
J.P. did.
End of the night for Dustin.
They were getting all over his fastball all night. His slider was ok but he wasn't using it much.
It's just one of those days. I'm going to switch to weed and listen to some Pink Floyd.
give me a fucking break, did he try to break doc's leg? just a fuckin bad stroke of luck just like wells. now lets score some fucking runs
u hit the nail on the head! it is Mench's/Shrek's fuckin fault...first he breaks Roys shin...now he breaks Dr Evils wrist........fuckin Mench..
My fuckin balls itch today.
stop gettin them cheap hookers/Mench's wife.
Laffey 1 hits us....Laffey
I don't think Vernon Wells is the key player on the team his salary would lead one to believe (nice one JP, you fast talking used car salesman!). Mench and Wiklerson are decent additions and hopefully the injruy provides the kick in the butt the other bats need to get going (or in Rios' case a really hard slap to the face). Losing "Hollywood" Wells for a couple months and letting a hard nosed Rolen take over the team might be a blessing in disguise.
As for management, Gibbons should have been fired two years ago when he started physically assaulting his players (Hillenbrand and Lilly). No question he should be fired ASAP. There's something wrong with the attitude of this team, there's an aura of failure, and I think a new coach might fix that.
Stairsencherson should be at the very least, interesting to watch.
@anon ^^^^^^^ Gibbons may be a players manager but he can't motivate himself out of a wet paper bag without resorting to punching his way out. My question is who do we bring in? If Gibbons goes, most of the bench staff has to go to clean up the attitude.
Rios just got a hit... is it just me or is he pulling the ball harder than a short changed prostitute.
....say i wonder what size Mench's melon is anyways....like a 9 & 7/8th or something...issat even possible? I bet it's bigger than Placido 'massively protruding forehead' Polanco even.
I've been on the fire Gibbons bandwagon for almost 2 years now. This team doesn't need a laid back southern-drawl Joe Torre wannabe. They need someone to light a fire under their asses. We're looking at a team that injuries completely out the window, has been underachieving for all of 2007 and 6 weeks of 2008 so far.
Hate to say it, but this currently 12-0 debacle is just the kind of thing that is gonna get his ass fired.
Also, someone please murder Jamie Campbell..."Aaron has the last 'Laff'ey tonight as the Indians 'Dustied' up Mcgowan for 9 runs"....hurl.
Regarding the other Chris' comment. I say we bring in Larry Bowa. Ask the Dodgers for permission. I think he'd light a fire under these guys asses. If he can't do it then it's time to blow the whole thing up.
Larry Bowa wouldn't work seeing how we have a third baseman named Scott Rolen.
Yep, let's fire John Gibbons because of his accent.
Larry Bowa's gonna "light a fire under this team" but John Gibbons who is literally willing to fight his own players isn't enough of a fire starter. Some of you people amaze me.
Coaching/managing is vastly overrated in all sports. Blame the players.
blame the GM/President.
pew pew
JP is the one that has to go...Gibby is his puppet...his ego (JP'S) is to Big (napolean complex) to let a manager call his own shots...6 years is up....fuck him.
we need Beeston or George Bell.
Another embarrassing loss.The Jays are only 2 behind the decimated Yanks even still,but 7 behind the Red Sox in the loss.For the guy who mentioned the Yanks,they brought up Rasner who is doing a decent job for them pitchingwise and they are still scoring runs without Posada and Arod.They will fix their ship.....
Is it over for the Jays?Technically,no but for all purposes this team looks terrible.I'm starting to think of JP pulling a Haren and dealing AJ for some young hotshots.BTW you fill in the blanks as they could trade.JP,Gibby and the Rogers/Godfrey people all have responsibility in this debacle.But JP has been in charge too long with no results to show for it,he should go.Gibby in close games doesn't maximize stategy enough.A Wilner caller is still talking about Barroid,that is how bad it's gotten.Is it over no,but does it feel over,yes.
Anyone who thinks this team is making the playoffs is drunk out of their mind.
The fact that Brad Wilkerson Armando Benetiz are here over Lind and League speaks volumes about the ineptitude of Jays management.
J.P has to go.
Pretty soon it's gonna turn all soccer here, so let me be the first to say "Allons les bleus!"
I wish the Dutch the beset of luck. They inhabit a country I've visted unintentionally about a half dozen times and I've come to the conclusion that the idealized image we Canuckers imagine for ourselves is one they come to naturally. They're mostly polite, but direct and rude when such an approach is called for. Maasticht's good for shopping, but the food is shit. The locals in Amsterdam are far too level-headed. Frankly, they'd have made better colonial overlords than the Limeys.
Allegiances as follows:
1. Jays
2. Arsenal
3. France (generally speaking)
4. Leafs (fuckin hateful of the truth)
Fannies!
It died in 2005 in extra innings in Detroit when Miguel Batista coughed it up in extras, in Oakland against BJ in 2006, the first week of May in 2007, and tonight against McG in Cleveland.
You might not want to proclaim it, but the fact remains.
JW
jones good call on lind and league,Wilkie and Benitez are wash upped never beens.Look my mantra has been it's getting late early.The Yankee AND Mets fans are pulling out their hair down here in the NYC area about their teams as well BUT they can produce runs even though they have pitching AND hitting woes.The caveat is that they can still score runs,the Jays can't.The Jays couldn't when everyone was healthy what is gonna make it change now?Mench and the Last expo.Barroid was a solution,but JP wants to go with the "good guys".Well,the good guys have scored 1 run the last 2 games and the tribe has scored 18 runs!
Ultimately,all I can say about JP,Godfrey and Rogers is that the inmates are running the asylum.If they get swept gy the Indians(which will probably happen) is Gibby gone?They have to do something because JP and Co need a fall guy.The team sucked offensively before the injuries,now what's the excuse?Injuries like last year,please.....
Southpaw,that death of the season might have been last night,but was it?Tonight's game might be the last nail in the coffin.
To Andrew: I'm the anon from above. I'm drunk now, so have a very clear mind. You make a good point about the entire bench staff needing to go too. It's the only way to rid the aura of failure. A team with a winning attitude wouldn't pull the baseball equivivalent of Two Girls, One Cup like the Jays did the other night when the heart of the order managed to strand Rios' leadoff triple in the 10th. But I'm rambling, the point is, I really don't know who they can bring in... but if Godfrey has any say in the matter you know it'll be Ernie Whitt!! lol... or maybe Pat Tabler the same way he brought in Buck Martinez... haha.
Sanitation? I told you to say sanitorium.
I think the Jays need more players who wear their pants up and show their socks. Fuck the numbers- it is just messing things up or something.Oh, don't forget the eye black, too.
-brent
i like the scarface reference
Note that Gibbby fought those guys 2 years ago. 2 Years! That's how long it's been since he showed some spark.
I read this blog regularly enough to know that my aformentioned "light a fire under their ass" mentality is for shit around here. But honestly, we have a couple of incredibly talented guys in Wells, Rios and Overbay who are in the middle of a season and a half long aberration in their careers.
My best example in how much I hate how Gibbons screws with the line-ups and never lets anyone get comfortable in any slot in the order. Hell how about having 'the franchise' go down with a broken wrist on Friday, and then give one of your other best players (Hill) the day off to play Valendia!?!?
Way to balance the offence shithead, I'm all for giving a guy a day off, but timing is pretty key, the line-up is already being juggled all over, give the team some kind of consistency.
As far as I've seen is the only constant for this team is under-achieving.
That is the mark of a bad manager.
Chris, click on my name for a link to this year's batting orders.
Considering all the injuries, platoons, and roster moves, that's been a really consistent lineup.
And let's say he wasn't making any changes. You would then accuse him of not doing anything because he's a dumb redneck with a retarded accent who knows nothing about baseball. So what do you want from him?
I love the Blue Jays, I'm not the frat boy that gets wasted and fights in the 500's, I sat at the Rogers Centre on Monday and swore at idiots who started a game-deciding moment wave, and I don't make the call into Wilner's show to ask for more grit.
I'm a baseball man, I don't even have a list of other teams I follow or generally give any attention to, my true sporting passion is the 162 games that I follow the Jays through every year.
So please don't treat me like a retarded anonymous d-bag.
I don't like Gibbons because he consistently confuses me with his line-up juggling, whenever he puts a secondary player in the line-up, he puts 2 or 3 in the same game. He consistently mismanages the bullpen (wrong guys at the wrong situations, ie. camp and accardo) and he always punishes the same 2-3 pitchers who he likes (last years downs-janssen-accardo, this years downs-tallet-accardo).
We've had a large sample of John Gibbons handywork, and as a Blue Jays fan is pains me to say it's been 3 1/2 years of mediocrity. In Pro Sports that's a long time. We're here with guys like Halladay Wells and Rios who are in their primes and we've been pissing it away.
It's time for a change is all I'm saying.
i just placed a big wager on the Tribe.....should be easy money with AJ pitching..
Chris, look at that link again and show me where Gibbons is putting out bad lineups on purpose. Scutaro played early on because of Rolen's injury as with Inglett. McDonald played sometimes for Eckstein. Scutaro is now playing because BOTH of our SS are on the DL. Wilkerson HAS to play because of the Wells injury. Barajas replaces Zaun sometimes. Valendia played to give Hill a rest who had played 37 straight games. I don't see a problem. I think you have a problem with the results more than the managing, which is fine.
Anyone listening to Wilner right now? There are some really stupid people calling in.
I agree that he's working with what he's been dealt, but there's been a few dandy decisions along the way. Inglett in RF? Scutaro in the OF when you have Stairs and Stewart on the bench (even though Scutaro throwing the guy out at the plate was nails that one time).
He may be playing the hand he's dealt so far as injuries, he just happens to not get a whole lot out of that hand. almost ever.
Both times Inglett played RF, Stewart and Stairs were also in the lineup. And Inglett was only playing in the first place because Rios and Wells had the flu and had to sit out in back to back games.
I checked that link you threw up.
He played 3 of 4 consecutive games in the OF, which was just after Thomas went for a walk. Still, Scutaro was on 3B, and he had a lot more experience in the OF.
I can readily admit that you've proven that he had a reason behind the shitty decisions he was forced into.
I guess I'm just frustrated with the results, partially blinded by how much I love the players that make up the team, but a good manager has to extract good performances, at this level of ball thats the main job isn't it?
Nah, I think that's kind of a ridiculous expectation.
I understand how incredibly frustrating it is to watch this team, but to point at the manager and say that he really has anything to do with this just, to me, has absolutely no merit. To me, the real answer is, there is no answer. Guys who have a history of performing much better than this just aren't executing and there's nothing a manager could do to get in their heads and change it.
What could anybody say or do to these guys that is going to change anything? I just don't see how in the real world people can believe that a manager can utter some magic words and they'll snap out of it. The problem with this team rests entirely with the hitters-- and a little bit with the people (person) who put together this group, though I've said before, he's absolutely not the only person who looked at this group and figured, OK, they can hit.
And people put way too much emphasis on the substitution stuff-- especially with the pitching, which has been as good as anyone in baseball. As for playing someone like Velandia, maybe it's a good thing to send the message that management thinks enough of the group to give Hill a well-deserved rest for a game that we all figure they really, really want to win. This stuff is never as simple as people think. And when it comes to the pitching, I think they expect every game to be a shutout.
The decisions managers make are almost always well-reasoned, and the thing about baseball is, each game has so many moving parts that can make the difference between winning and losing that it's usually almost impossible to pinpoint one thing that cost a team a game. There are myriad things you can point to-- a blown call, a missed pickoff, a bobbled catch, a broken bat, a flat slider, etc. etc.-- that contribute to the final outcome, and all the manager has to do is try to put his players in a position to succeed. From there, it's up to the players.
There is a massive list of managers who've managed shitty teams and great ones. There's enough data on this that it's pretty clear that the manager has very little to do with it. Why was Joe Torre an idiot in St. Louis and a genius in New York? Why was Terry Francona awful in Philadelphia and great in Boston? Why was Lou Piniella terrible in Tampa Bay and great in Cincinnati and Seattle?
It's all about the players.
Forgot to add: Why has Tony Larussa had four 100 win teams and 9 that either finished below .500 or were below .500 when he was fired?
Because he ran out of fire to light under asses, obviously.
Wanted to drop a line on this blog because I had someone mention it to me. I'm living in Toronto now and seeing instantly why being a Jays fan is so frustrating. A bad offense now loses Wells, that's tough. Anyways I like the blog and I pull for the Jays even as a born Orioles fan.
Mike
mikeseff.blogspot.com
No not because he ran out of fire. What he ran out of was management backup, in other words if a high priced egomaniac constantly screws up or goes against the coach bench him for 5 to 10 games, regardless of cost, then when he returns start him as a second string for another 5 to 10, and if he loses his touch, bench him for the season, he loses his worth to you and every other team as well. In other words if they're not willing to give 120% then cut them to what they're worth (if that ruins their carreer tough) and maybe the smart ones in the lineup will learn from that and tow the 120% line. For what it's worth.
Bottom line,something has to change.JP put these casts of characters together and Gibby has been managing them and nothing seems to be working.Do they need a Bowa?They need someone like Booby V who knows how to utilize players that suck.I saw the 99 and 2000 Mets go to the playoffs and World Series and they had no reason to be there.I see Gibby and I see a lot of 1 run losses and late inning at home losses,his time is up.As for JP,Wilner claims the team is better than during the Ash era...WTF is he talking about?What a bunch of horse manure.They finished in second only one year in the JP era and even then didn't make it to the playoffs.JP's regime is just as bad as Ash's because they haven't even made it to the freaking wild card.Now the team looks destined to be a bottomdweller instead of a contender because of JP's mismanagement and Gibby's misplays.
Look, again for what it's worth. The odds are both JP and Gibby aren't total screw ups. But it would seem highly likely that one is. Let's assume it's JP. Then Gibby has to confront him in the strongest terms and basically lay his ass on the line. If in doing so he's gone, but at least he'd be gone for the right reason and maintains a strong future elsewhere. This entire hypothesis is based on JP giving orders at game management level and Gibby being a good soldier!
http://itmightbedangerous.blogspot.com/ Paul Depodesta's just started blog
-brent
I have to laugh at the 'Barry Bonds' stuff. As If Rogers Communications is going to tie its name to a confirmed cheater and an accused perjurer, to appease a few dozen internet loons.
You mean Rogers doesn't believe the baseball market is its core economic demographic? Say it ain't so.
Dusty Baker had a batting order faux pas today.
hehehe yeah I saw that one.
A trained monkey with a good set of flash cards can run a major league baseball team. There are so many books and programs to follow you just have to input your situation and it spits out all the possible options and which are recommended.
If a manger does that, then they are doing all they can. From what I've seen, Gibbons is a good tactical manager who isn't ignorant of the stats and the matchups; but doesn't need to follow them all the time. He's not overly creative but thinks outside of the box from time to time.
Sure he might not be a great motivator but that doesn't matter. Blame the players and boo them mercilessly until they improve. At least we have the pitching... even 4.5 runs / game would be enough.
I think a manager can motivate his team, and he can also not motivate his team. He can also do nothing. It depends what kind of manager a team needs, and that is why some can succeed one place and not another, and each group of players might benefit from a particular manager.
One manager may be the fit a team needs (as a Sox fan, the straight-laced Francona seems on paper and in a practice a fine match with both the 04 and 08 Sox), and may fail to motivate and succeed with a different group of players.
On some teams with more unity and veteran presence, I'd say Gibbons might be just fine, tactically speaking. But he seems like an immature personality type, sometimes even reminding me of John Creese in the Karate Kid, and the Jays seem to be floundering under him.
Whether or not he can right the ship, or if the ship is just too fucking full of holes for anybody to right it, it seems about time to see if somebody else can help this ship out. Otherwise, I'll have to deal with another Yankees/Sox summer and fall, and I'm about ready for a change.
Edits: 07
Kreese:http://profile.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=user.viewprofile&friendid=15286220
The underlying fact is all teams that win it all are driven by a player who is playing completely out of his mind. Bonds makes Dusty Baker look like God... then he went to Chicago... and Cincinnati...
We need Rios and Overbay to have monster seasons just for a start. The ship isn't sinking... it's taking on a bit of water... but we're not at the point of no return yet.
At least our pitching is going nuts.
As for tomorrow's doubleheader, I predict we'll win the second game because the Indians' arms will be so tired from getting all those hits in the first game. The Home Run Derby effect, if you will.
vernon wells likes a double header up his pooper
cum guzzler
With the way the Rays are playing the Jays will be fighting the Os for the cellar this year.Many people said that the Rays were better and I just laughed at 'em,now who is laughing.Friedman spends 43 million and has a team that is 5 games over .500,JP spends 100 million and the Jays are bottom swellers and as of now 4 games under .500.
The doubleheader today...get prepared for a sweep.Carmona is pitching much better than Burnett and I just saw Lee pitch against the Yankees and he was utterly amazing.Their much reduced lineup(which is still scoring far more runs) couldn't hit him,so the Jays don't have a chance.If the Jays win one of these two games ,then hell that is a job well done,if not BYE BYE Gibby!It's really enough already,Eli's point about rebulding is not that stupid because it's getting late early.I give it until before the All Star break,to see how really bad they will be.If JP makes trades ,he should look at his old boss Beane and get a shitload of good young talent that can hit and pitch because the Rays are for real,hitting and pitchingwise and the Jays are not as good.If it means trading sacred cows,then so be it because the threshold for this team is third place at most!
Another thing ,JP has been here for what?Seven years and what has he done?Where are the playoffs appearances and the changed attitude.I felt sick when Wilner spun the Ash years were worse.Really worse,they didn't sniff the playoffs then and didn't now.He had no one ready to play third in the minors,I mean c'mon.100 million is spent when,these BS teams like Tampa and Florida are doing well spending nothing,it's really embarrassing.At least the Red Sox,spend 133 million(it's probably more,Lucchino is lying about that payroll) and they are getting something to show for it.
Hey fucktard
PLEASE PRESS ENTER OR SPACE IN BETWEEN YOUR SENTENCES kthx
Actually, even better idea: just go away!
Toronto mystery of the day: how is it the Leafs can do no wrong, but the Jays can do no right? I understand there's some frustration here, but writing off the season at the one-quarter mark is just plain stupid.
Gabe,it won't just be a Yankees/Red Sox Summer, throw the lowly Rays in there.They are young,hungry and will be a real pest all year 'round.
Adams,it is not stupid to write off a team when they can't score runs and their much vaunted pitching is coming down to earth.It is much stupider to actually think that they can compete as currently constituted. This is not a team that is ready to compete,we'll see them in a month and then that'll be the end of that.BTW,fucktard is not a word,that is something that the "I live in mom's basement /I can't get laid crowd" uses because of their lack of wit and their lack of sexual activity with another human being.You are evidently one of them...........grow up.
Thank you for the English lesson, I'll be sure to take it to heart. In the meantime, could you provide me your mailing address? I'd like to send you a spacebar.
Send me a spacebar?I don't want you to trip down the stairs when you try to leave Mom's basement,so no worries mate.........
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