DJF Podcast #8: Layin' Down the Law
Obviously, it's been a crazy week for the Jays, so we thought, who better to weigh in on the major shakeups than ESPN's Keith Law? Keith joined us for an extended chat on the Jays' situation-- and pretty much carried the show for us, seeing as we were still basically shellshocked after the Dutch were outplayed by Guus Hiddink's Russians on Saturday, sending them crashing out of yet another Euro cup.
Get the podcast here at TheScore.com.
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45 comments:
I still can't believe the Jays might not even have one 20 homerun hitter this year.
1.2 Molinas. Fantastic.
Not that we're any good on air, but I do think we've added nicely to the Ricciardi mythology here. Well... Law did, at least. Rios and Wells for a bag of balls? Always pushing against Godfrey's longings for nostalgia? Hmmm.
Oh and Thai Princess is FANTASTIC! Order their Pad Thai. Hot service staff as well.
I went their once, but was expecting a different sort of service altogether.
One where they know which spelling of "their" to use?
parkes is fucking nailing those parting shots!
Molina: Origin from Benji Molina, present Giant, former Blue Jay. Term used as a reference of speed or lack there of. It is a measure of slowness. Comparable to the speed of light, where in physics, nothing can be faster. However, since a Molina is used as a measure of slowness, nothing can be slower.
Wow, this podcast really goes down hill once Keith Law signed off.
Rumours and bad impressions, this thing never ends.
I think a Molina is more a point of reference like the freezing point of water. It's possible to be like Frank Thomas and pull a 0.76 Molina, or like Adam Dunn and a 1.4 Molina. Speedsters like Reyes or Crawford are in the 4 or 5 Molina range. I think it's a logarithmic scale.
In fact, I'm going to start naming all aspects of the game for their most likely producer. Singles can be called Juan Pierres, Doubles are Overbays, and Home Runs are Rally Killers.
I can't believe you didn't ask Keith about this Microsoft-Painted picture of him that you guys use.
yes, if it were to be a scale, the Molina would definitly be Logarithmic
That's called "gold", jrock.
Depression alert:
Does anyone realize that the Jays have to win 4 of the next 7, just to have June be "only" as bad as May was good. Ugh!
Lind is certifiable and Hill is an alcoholic? I'm going to start spreading those rumours now.
Best Fucking Podcast yet...
When am I going to be a guest?
I lol'd
I still can't believe how you guys keep managing to get these kinds of guests.
but why the shitting on Eckstein and slurping of Scutaro?
eck: .279/.367/.358
scut: .249/.347/.316 -- .316 slugging, ugh...
also, Wilkerson's June: .277/.393/.404
Just listened to my first DJF podcast.
Nails.
It sounds almost exactly like the time I went on university radio with a buddy of mine. Except you guys were talking about baseball instead of avoiding pretension. Oh, and you had a guest with cred. Aaaand, you guys probably have a passion for broadcasting.
Anyone else think it sounded like Law was uncomfortable with swearing but got into it by the end? Apparently your fawning all over his nuts let him relax and swear like a regular sports fan.
Alcohol and not having the numbers in front of us.
^^^ Response to Josh.
SWEET podcast. super candid keith law.
My favourite parts of the podcast this week were:
-Keith Law saying "fuck"
-Stoeten's quote "I'd check out of this season, if I could too".
- The JP and Sean Connery impressions. Fucking priceless.
Keep up the drunk work!
Oh, and Joe saying that Wilner gets his concussions from smashing his head against the wall!
Take anything Keith Law says about the Jays with a huge grain of salt. He shits on Arnsberg not being fired even though we (still) have the best pitching staff in the majors. But then he asks what Whitt did to deserve being fired. Um, how about the fact in his one and only chance at managing a team with that lineup fiasco. Or that he has no minor league managing or coaching experience at all. And check out Wilner's blog. Whitt trashed Wilner for saying that Whitt being a manager or GM is ridiculous.
But... why does any of that mean Whitt should be fired as the first base coach? Like Law said, why not fire him in the off-season if that stuff from last year was the issue? Why now?
I think he was clear about the negatives in Arnsberg's favour. I think you're grasping here.
What negatives in Arnsberg's favor? That he hasn't made Burnett into a Cy Young candidate? Guess what, AJ has come exactly as advertised. I don't remember any promises of turning AJ into an ace. AJ's problems are the fault of no one but himself. And what is Arnsberg supposed to do about McGowan's home/road split? He's just getting himself in trouble on the road in one or two innings per start.
As for Whitt. Once again, he has done nothing to deserve being a major league coach let alone manager. You ask why now? Well, why would you force Gaston to keep him just so Whitt can keep his ceremonial 1st base job? If anyone is grasping, it's Law doing anything just to take a shot at his old boss.
By the way, why do you guys keep perpetuating this conspiracy that JP was just covering his ass with the firing? There were rumours two days before the firing that the change was in the works. As stupid as it was of JP to say that, he would've had to orchestrate that major shakeup in a matter of hours after the comments. As you guys said yourselves, Cito had to have gathered his guys AND be in Toronto BEFORE the comments even happened. I'll give JP a pass on the comments considering he's the only GM to take questions from fans on a weekly basis. If you do that for 3 years (I think its been 3 years) as he has done, you're bound to say something stupid once in a while, especially when you have to fire almost your entire staff the next day.
It's hard for me to consider anything Law says about Ricciardi as being an objective observer... I mean what with Ricciardi calling him an idiot reporter and such...
Did Ricciardi really say that? Every time I've heard someone ask him about Law, he has always brushed it off saying something like "he can think whatever he wants". I've never actually heard him take a shot at Law.
Yes.
Keith Law, former Blue Jays special assistant to GM J.P. Ricciardi, but a writer for ESPN since June, published what appearded to be priveliged details of a relationship known from his previously being a high ranking official with the team.
“Vernon Wells has told Blue Jays’ management that he has no intention of signing a contract extension to stay in Toronto. He and his family would like to move closer to his home in Texas, and he has become increasingly disenchanted in Toronto as he has faced public criticism from general manager J.P. Ricciardi.”
While rumors that Wells wanted to play closer to home are not new, this is the first report that says Wells has told the club he is not coming back. Both Wells and Ricciardi denied that conversation ever took place.
From Wells, “The conversation never happened. It’s a complete fabrication.”
From Ricciardi, “He’s become a writer. It doesn’t take long. Keith Law is officially an idiot.”
----
Can't blame Ricciardi on this. Law really screwed his credibility when he fabricated an entire conversation.
Lol, someone needs to write a book on these guys.
Why can't I get the podcast on itunes anymore?
I like KLaw, quite a lot actually. Love his insight on the game and find his evaluations very insightful. It's not just the usual "the kid has a rocket" or whatever bullshit fluff you usually read.
BUT (and I know you're reading this, Keith)......I find the constant JP bashing (or sniping, or call it what you like) a little much, and really, don't regard it as much more than amusing reading material. Just seems like taking advantage of a once-privileged confidence to take swipes at the guy in a public forum.
But then again, what the fuck do I know about morality and ethics, I'm just a dude who reads a blog.
best,
the ack.
Sorry, Canadian idol, but I never fabricated anything. The conversation took place some time in August of 2006. However, I did not publish any privileged information that I obtained while working with the team and have never violated my confidentiality agreement with Toronto.
But other than getting everything wrong, you were spot on!
the ack: Thanks for the thoughts. I don't think that I've talked much about the Jays this year, or at least not about the front office, until JP put himself back in the news last week. But I can understand how it might seem repetitive to someone tuned in to Jays-specific comments.
Canadian Idol ... I guess Keith has already defended himself, but I'd like to add, um... and you're definitely not the only one who does this, but you've got to be more careful interpreting certain words when they're used in media reports.
The fact that Wells ended up (surprisingly, if I recall) signing a ridiculously huge contract with the Jays absolutely does not make it necessarily untrue that at one point he had "no intention" to do so and had a conversation about it.
Are you really going to take at face value the word of JP Ricciardi and a professional athlete with ample reason to rubbish the reports? This is your evidence that Law is full of shit? Right, because Ricciardi would be honest. And Wells would have outright admitted he wanted out of town.
To me, the outlandish contract it took to keep Vernon around makes it sound even more plausible that a conversation like this may have taken place. Regardless, the fact that Vernon did sign does not mean that his position may have once been different.
To SP, yes, Ricciardi definitely did say that.
As for the other stuff, you yourself named two big negatives that you can hang on Arnsberg-- but I think you're way wrong on the Burnett one. AJ would not have been given the kind of money that he was if the Jays didn't think that they could harness the positive in him. A lot of that rests with Arnsberg-- because he was the guy brought in to land him, and then to do it.
Get defensive about McGowan all you want, but I think it's completely valid to question the pitching coach when a guy with his kind of stuff, this far along in his development, is performing like this.
Now, I'm not sure if that's enough to warrant firing him-- and I agree that when it comes to most guys it seems that Arnsberg has done a good job-- but these certainly are valid questions to be asking. Listen to what was said again-- I honestly think it was mostly just speculating and trying to figure out why this went down the way it did. So, um... relax.
As for "perpetuating the rumour" about the Dunn comments being related to it, um... so you're just going to believe JP/Godfrey? Why?
Unless I hear for sure otherwise, I have no reason to doubt it's a reasonable explanation. I'm not sure if you're familiar with modern methods of travel, but with Cito already on standby, they certainly could have pulled this together in time.
You go ahead and believe what you want, but to suggest that JP/Godfrey have already given us the truth on this and we should not speculate on it further is ridiculous. I'm not saying they're definitely lying, but, uh... look who you're talking about.
Interesting podcast - I liked the Butterfield/infield coaching insight; when I saw O-Dog got another web gem tonight, I almost yelled "Brian Butterfield," but thought better of it.
Re: the Wells conversation, couldn't his "no intention" just have been a negotiating tactic? Wells may have thought that taking an extreme position would help his leverage in the negotiation.
I do agree with sp about the Whitt firing, though. Whitt was already demoted. They may not have fired Whitt earlier because of the prominence he has with casual fans (i.e. Godfrey's nostalgia); also, if Gibbons has no problem with Whitt, what's the harm in keeping him on in a role where he can do no damage?
But if the coaching staff is purged, and Cito (who I understand can be stubborn on occasion) dug in for his own guys, why not take the opportunity to get rid of Whitt in a tidal wave? Guys who just got demoted are pretty easy to get rid of, and it's unlikely that Ricciardi would have gone to the mat for him over his other guys. (And Godfrey may have no longer felt the need to keep Ernie for nostalgic reasons, what with Cito, Geno, and Leyva coming back.)
I don't know how you read my post but I sure wasn't being "defensive" or overreacting. I just want to know what AJ's meltdowns and as-advertised inconsistency, and McGowan's inconsistency H/R have to do with Arnsberg. You say that I myself named two "big negatives" to hang on Arnsberg. What are they, that AJ isn't an ace and that McGowan has a shitty H/R splits? Because those are the only two things I mentioned and they can hardly be blamed on Arnsberg. Forget his contract, it's decided by the market environment. If we didn't pay him, someone else would have. AJ was brought in to add pitching depth, period. No one ever said anything about sculpting a Cy Young candidate out of him.
By the way, do you really think Arnsberg is the pitching coach just because he "got us Burnett" or is it because he has been a ML pitching coach since 2000 and has experience handling great pitchers? I don't really believe in coaches meaning all that much but you don't wanna at least give him a LITTLE credit for this pitching staff? Funny how a losing streak can change perceptions.
And about the Wells thing, I like how you defend (suck up to) Law and brand Ricciardi as dishonest while conveniently ignoring that Law openly despises Ricciardi and goes out of his way to trash him whenever possible. Law is a great baseball writer but he's the last person I would trust regarding JP stuff.
On Dumbgate, JP on JaysTalk hinted that a managing change was coming very soon (Wilner and others caught this too); the question was about Cito specifically. He then talks shit about Dunn due to being stressed about firing his staff the next day. We had hit rock bottom well before that 8-7 game and a lot of people were predicting a change on that particular day (last game of the series), well before the comments were even made. And really, think about it, by making the change the day after the comments, wouldn't that be an obvious cover up since it's still fresh in people's minds? You're assuming that they are stupid enough to think that we the fans are that stupid. And no one is that stupid, because we all saw through it as a simple PR move, most likely headed by Godfrey. The timing was a coincidence and you are really reaching to put a neat spin on it.
P.S. Stoeten, you can stop with the condescending uhs and ums; I can understand your points just fine without them.
Does anybody here realize McGowan's peripherals are actually better this year than last? His FIP is .15 better, his HR/9 is down, and his K/BB is nearly identical to last year. He will eventually improve on his numbers this season, it's only a matter of time, but his ERA last year was only 4.08 (it's 4.21 right now). Arnsberg cannot be blamed for his struggles, because he isn't even really struggling.
As for Burnett, well he's just a fucking head case. However his peripherals are also much better than last year with his FIP at 3.58opposed to 4.33 last year. You'd have to think it's only a matter of time until he gets his ERA down from the mid 5's to somewhere respectable, but then again it is AJ Burnett, so who the fuck knows. Either way, I don't see cause to fire Arnsberg there.
And as for the whole discussion about whether this Gaston hiring was done to cover up for Ricciardi's idiotic comments...well I think this was something well in place before Wednesday. When asked about Cito that night, he basically implied the guy would be managing again at some point, a bit of a give-away in my opinion. In fact, realizing that Gaston was still working under Godfrey, and Godfrey's love of the nostalgia from the championship teams, I deemed it almost a perfect fit, and posted my thoughts here, among other places on the web (still waiting for my tickets-Parkes, haha). I have no doubt that they were thinking about getting rid of Gibbons for some time, and with Ricciardi scheduled to meet up with the team in Pittsburgh on that Friday even before the JP radio show, I don't think the move had anything to do with blocking out the bad press from that Wednesday (though that was certainly a convenient part of it).
Keith, thanks for replying, I think you did hit the nail on the head, re: tuned in to Jays specific commentary. I'm sure that's the case, and given that, my comment was probably harsher than required.
stoeten, my take is that it seems you're giving Keith the benefit of the doubt to a much greater degree than any of the other principles involved in the conversation, which is fair since you have more of a relationship with him (well, he did appear on the podcast), than say, JP or Arnsberg. But I don't think it's unfair for others to take an opposing position, given everyone is at square 1 with all parties.
^^ @ myself
......aaannnnndd, in thinking about this, I do realize I am being a total hypocrite, in that I howl when I read KLaw ripping a guy like ex-Reds honcho Wayne 'Rivsy'. I guess I can't expect a guy to entertain, then get my back up when it's on my team. So there you go.
(stoeten, I still think you're getting your back up a little though)
Best. Podcast. Ever. Someone mail Keith a one-way ticket to Pearson, Stoeten can pick him up with a case of suds, and he can post and podcast on this site forever.
^^ @ Scutaro/Eckstein comparison:
How about we balance those against fielding percentages? Maybe blatant, crawling-across-the-field errors that cost runs?
ridiculous contract? if i recall correctly, wells' contract was right on the heels of soriano's and carlos lee's deals which were pretty much setting the bar on wells' value.
wells' contract was signed well in the confines of market value, not above.
don't make shit up.
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