What the Hell is Going On?!?
What the fuck? The Jays fire Gibbons and bring back Cito Gaston.
Um... OK. Why?
Better yet: why the fucking fuck?
Well, I can think of a few reasons-- none of which endear me to this GM, this ownership, or this shitty franchise.
For starters, hey! Nobody's talking about the GM's ridiculously unprofessional shiting on Adam Dunn the other day anymore, are they? Yeah, the timing here isn't transparent at all, JP, you fucking moron. Nobody was ever going to notice that you took the heat off yourself by trying to create a feel-good story.
For seconds, hey! Everybody likes Cito! Am I wrong? It's not at all a joke that this franchise would pathetically try to bribe its fan base into having restored interest in the team by trying to capture a piece of its long-passed glory years.
I'm sure JP will say all the right things about it being a time for a change, and Cito being overdue for getting work again, but he's an arrogant idiot if he thinks he can pull the wool over this city's eyes like that.
And, don't get me wrong, I think Cito's great. I won't shit on Cito just because the man who put him in charge thinks that this city is full of idiots who won't see through this transparent bullshit. But this is clearly a pathetic last gasp from a GM who, if we didn't already think it, just himself gave us the clearest evidence that his time in Toronto is up.
I almost posted this sentiment the other day-- in fact, I've almost posted a lot of things lately, but haven't had the wherewithal because of how completely disinterested I've become in this team-- but I don't think that firing the manager is going to have the desired effect, for JP, of keeping his ass out of the fire. This kind of cheap shit calculated nonsense is not going to go over-- at least, not if we, or anyone with half a brain has anything to do with it. Hahaha-- Griffin and his boner for nostalgia must be so torn!
And Arnsberg stays through all this? Why?
I know, I know, everybody gives him a tonne of credit for how the pitching has done, but that's just it... is the credit warranted? Have you watched McGowan lately? Do you remember who his "prized pupil" is? The one who sucks bag?
Haha. And Keith Law just said on the Fan that Arnsberg "was introduced to me by Ricciardi as, this is the guy who's going to get us Burnett."
That's another part of the decision that's knee-deep in cowing to public perception. Arnsberg is a PR plus, so he stays. Ridiculous. Transparent. Bullshit.
Worst of all, the morons pulling all the strings here are the guys who are still in charge of the team, and still have the ability to go out and desperately flail about the trade market, making panic moves to save their jobs?!!?!? Gibbons, despite what a chorus of morons will maintain, was far from the problem with this team-- and if Gaston fails to turn things around, it's going to expose JP real quick. So... why don't they all (save for the pawns in this amateur PR game, Cito and Gibbers, both of whom I wish well) just fuck off. For the good of the franchise, get rid of these idiots now. Please, Uncle Teeder. This is painfully obvious horseshit.


301 comments:
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«Oldest ‹Older 1 – 200 of 301 Newer› Newest»It's '89 all over again!
I thought it was a joke when Parkes posted that Cito was back, but I guess it's true. You're right Stoeten, it seems like Ricciardi is trying to lure fans back by brining in the coach that won them two World Series.
Although, I don't think things can get much worse than they already are - right?
I just want all my peeps here at DJF to know that I am intentionally abstaining from commenting until I can get my head around all of this fucking bullshit.
Jays are in last place... there is no laster place is there?
All I can say is Gene Fucking Tenace.
You're fooling nobody JP.
http://ca.news.yahoo.com/s/capress/080620/sports/bbl_gibbons_fired
this article was fair in its assessment.
Who does Cito think he is? Billy "fucking" Martin?
Anyone else remember his armless sunglasses that stayed on his head via suction cups that stuck to his temples? Hopefully he's sporting them today or I'll be pissed.
About a month too late.
Isn't Cito smart enough to know if they're just bringing him in to placate the fans? Prior to today, everyone was saying he'd never manage again! Why would he come back for that?
If Cito brings back those shades, then this is the greatest move of JP's tenure.
Settle down man..yikes. This post seems like the direct result of you flipping your fucking lid....
I am actually kind of excited for this (and a crazy, Wilner calling chicken little I ain't)even if it is a touch hokey (mostly the Leyva and Tennace hirings). Like someone already stated...things can't get much worse than they are under Gibbers so why not take a chance.
And since when is how the players perform on the field the responsibility of the GM and not the coach? All the GM can do is use analysis of past performance (or reasobable asusmptions about future performance) to put together the best team possible. Given all that, does this not seem like Jean Paul did all of that?
Can't this city find team presidents who know a thing or two about their team's sport? I mean, between Paul Godfrey and Richard-fucking-Peddie, would it be too much to ask for a sportsman as President?
Yeah, Anon 2:49... because Cito is going to magically get these guys to hit. Dumb.
@ dt: Dood, I missed out on the old school Oakley's comment by a mere 2 minutes. Kudos.
"About a month too late."
BAH! let's fire the manager in the midst of a 20-10 month!!! yea!
Gillick's contract is up at the end of the year, guys. Obviously this is a Godfrey hire and just sweetener for Uncle Pat.
Totally awesome - best Flashback Friday ever!!
And just for a little more wackiness, Jason Bay pulled an AJ Burnett and told the Fan he likes the prospect of playing in Toronto.
http://www.cbc.ca/sports/baseball/story/2008/06/20/bucs-bay.html?ref=rss
This is a PR move , but what a PR move this is. JP knows the fans will fall for the feelgood BS in an attempt to cover up Dumbgate and last place. But ya know what? It can't hurt? Look the team had deeper problems than 1 Run Gibby , but he was one of them.
No, he really wasn't.
My thoughts exactly. I saw the firing crawl by on the ESPN ticker, and said to my roommate "ah, they're trying to buy the fans off with Cito." J.P., if you're not fooling folks in the SF Bay Area, not sure how it'll play in Toronto.
Even the announcers on other feeds (like Texas) have commented extensively in recent days about how much this team is underachieving and struggling. And this was before the Adam Dunn insanity.
I kind of preferred it when the Jays were just quietly mediocre and virtually unnoticed outside of Toronto, rather than acknowledged by (seemingly) the rest of baseball as hugely underachieving.
Yes, he was...
Things are set up nicely for a Jays-Cubs-Bucs 3-way involving Bay, Burnett and some prospects going from the Cubs to the Bucs (and maybe from the Jays to the Bucs too).
I mean.....am I getting Punk'd here?
I'm not even going to get into the fact that the majority of fucking mindless dick bag Blue Jay fans (and media) HATED Cito for most of his tenure and always said the team won DESPITE him. And you know what? I liked Cito. But this isn't even about whether I like the guy or not. And what, Galen Cisco was unavailable?
Fuck.
Stoeten - I have to admit that sometimes I think something, and I read your thoughts, and I think that maybe I'm wrong. I can never let you teach this skill to my wife, because my life as I know it would never be the same.
That being said.......BULLSHIT! Do you really think that this wouldn't have happened if JP had not said the stuff about Dunn? You say that JP did this to get the heat off himself for those comments? I don't think JP even had a say in this. I think he was told back in April "hey if this season doesn't turn around, we're bringing in Cito." May gave Gibby a second life, but JP knew this was coming....which is why he said what he did about Cito on Wilner's show Wednesday. We all know you love Gibby, but running JP though a meat grinder in this post is way reactionary.
Stoeten,
Just because a move is catering to the idiot fans doesn't mean it's not also the correct move. Given that a manager has little effect on the game itself, the best move when forced by PR to make one, is to hire the fan favourite. If the jays return to normal with RISP, people will see this as a catalyst instead of a coincidence and will be happy. The downside is negligible.
If you aren't a part of the solution... you are a part of the problem...
that was Gibby...
On Arnsberg: Seriously!?!? How can you blame him for Burnett after all the time you've spent going on about how coaches don't do anything?
You can't blame Arnsberg for Burnett's stupidity. You could credit him with helping develop his stuff, like he's done with the rest of the rotation.
McGowan's home and away splits point to it being more of a mental problem as well.
I think the world of Arnsberg. Look at the one thing he seems to be responsible for, and it's the one thing on this team that isn't in the shitter.
I also think this call was out of Ricciardi's hands. I could be/probably am wrong, but wasn't Cito some sort of "Special Assistant to the President and CEO" before this? ie: in Godfrey's back pocket? Does this really look like a move JP would make, hiring a guy like Cito? Sorry, but this doesn't pass the smell test for me.
I would have laid odds that if he fired Gibby, he'd bring in Ken Macha or someone of that ilk. But Cito? No way this was Ricciardi's call. This call had to come from above him, with the axe swinging above Ricciardi's neck otherwise.
Just my take.
I really don't believe this had anything to do with the Adam Dunn incident. A move(s) like this had to be a in the works for a while. I think it's grasping and over-simplifying a bit to classify it as a cover-up move.
Having said that I completely buy that it's a hokey PR move by a desperate organisation that's in a tailspin.
if Halladay slurps Arnsberg... then I'll slurp Arnsberg...
Anybody listening to Godfrey? He sounds like a man trying to differentiate between baseball and football. What a dink.
On the whole attention diverting thing:
I wish it was just attention diverting ploy to make people forget about the Dunn comments. There's no way that this happened only in the last two days. This has been in the working for at least a week. They brought back all of Gaston's men for fuck's sake.
Yah there is no fucking way this didn't start way before the dunn stuff.
Godfrey just said on the FAN that this has been in motion since wednesday.
I think he had to say something somewhat recent so he picked Wednesday. I wouldn't be surprised if this had been talked about as early as during last season.
The last person I believe about anything Blue Jay related is JP. The second last person I believe about anything Blue Jay related is Godfrey. I bet this was in the works since the "rock bottom" Cleveland series, if not earlier.
Agreed JD. Also with your previous post too. This is obviously pandering to the moronic fans who, let's be honest, are the ones they pretty much have to cater to to fill seats.
Dustin - If you were in charge, what would you do to pander to the non-moronic fans?
Well, if the players new as of yesterday it would explain their effort.
2 things from me
1) Of course JP is trying to get fans to care about the jays... his job as a GM is to not get fired.. that's the way professional sports is.. live with it!!!
2) Just a heads up.. next flashback friday... Jays vs Braves... Cito vs Cox!!!! Wow!!!!!!!!!!!
He'd hire stoeten and wilner.
Pandering?
Don't be an idiot. JP's trying to save his ass. Why would he waste his time pandering?
Support from moronic fans won't save his job. Winning will.
QED.
Bitches.
Butterfield as intern. Reevaluate in the offseason.
That's what I'd do to make a better team.
The worst thing about this is if the team accually plays like they should have been then we'll have to endure all the idiots calling Wilner and screaming "told you so"
uggg kill me now.
I don't get the motivation behind all shit-slinging. Why not let this play out and see what happens? Some of you guys sound like you'll be pissed if the Jays turn things around. HUH? Some of you guys are really coming off like you would rather be right than have the Jays win.
That's the thing, Wheels. This isn't the best move for a better baseball team, it's the best move to bring back fairweather fans.
That's why it's pandering to them.
So I guess MLB is having a manager-clearance sale this week then, eh? That's the third skipper to get canned this week!
that time of year....
I don't think very highly of Cito Gaston as manager.
If the team turns it around, he'll be given a shitload of undeserved credit, and that will bother me, but you're right, I'll be happier that they're turning it around than anything else.
"I don't get the motivation behind all shit-slinging. Why not let this play out and see what happens? Some of you guys sound like you'll be pissed if the Jays turn things around. HUH? Some of you guys are really coming off like you would rather be right than have the Jays win."
Quoted for truth. Right -fucking- on.
Well ...
Cito is a damned fine hitting coach and this is a case where his aggressive approach to hitting might serve the club well.
During his last tenure he had a bunch of young guys that needed to learn patience and never did under Gaston.
Now we've got a team that's patient but doesn't know how to be intelligently aggressive--Gaston may be useful.
I agree it's likely P.R. B.S. but I'm going to give Gaston a fair shot--he is his own man and won't swallow what J.P. shovels at him.
I once had the privilege of sitting down with him back in 2000 and came away hugely impressed with the man--he will be taking his assignment seriously.
At least Denbo is gone--I'm actually glad that Cito will have some access to the hitters.
This much is certain--it cannot be any worse.
Best Regards
John
Best Regards
John
Tabler just said that someone needs to come in and light a fire. But I thought these were pros and motivation couldn't be a factor?
But who knows more about being in a locker room, an ex-ballplayer or bloggers?
On the one hand I think that it was unfair to Gibby because this wasn't his fault. That said, his contract was up at the end of the year and they still have to pay him. I think he won't have too much trouble finding a new job.
To be honest, I didn't see any signs that the team as constructed was going to get better any time soon. They had to change something, and this was the easiest change to make. Who replaces Gibbons doesn't really matter that much to me because odds are he and Ricciardi are done at the end of the year anyways unless they turn it around. And the nostalgic in me is glad to see Cito managing again, maybe this will jump-start his career.
Tabler knows nothing being clutch... Screw him and his .499 career batting average with the bases loaded.
errr...
The worst part of course is that Marty York was right.
If they would have hired Butters as interim, and the team would have turned things around strictly thanks to the law of averages, wouldn't it then be Butters who go the endeserved credit? What's the difference. It's not like Butters got fired.
"got the undeserved" Jeez.
Nice one Wheeler.
stedron, I can definitely see where you're coming from with that, but at least in my case, that's 100% not true. I would like nothing more than to see the team rip off another 20 win month. And another one after that. etc...
It's just....this move reeks of bullshit to me. It doesn't at all feel like a baseball move designed to better the club. It feels like a business move designed to put more asses in seats. And you know, I have a business background, so I completely understand that. But I fuck around on here as a Blue Jay fan, not because I'm concerned about the team's bottom line.
People called for Gibby's head because it's such an obvious thing to do, and the easy thing to do as a disappointed fan. He guides the team to a 20 win month in May, people love him, then after a brutal stretch in June he's fired and replaced by the special assistant to the CEO? Who happens to be the one name that could revive flagging interest in the club? That's not a baseball decision. That's a PR decision.
What a treat after a terrible round of golf!!!!
FANTASTIC!
More when my feet get beneath my body.
I'm wondering which of the new guys gets to change A.J.'s diaper?
Nobody loved Gibby in May...
But it's not like they hired Joe Carter to manage. That would have been PR "bullshit" This guy was still in the orginization because he's a solid baseball mind, and he's had interviews for other jobs.
I think of it as the last Indiana Jones. Sure it's hokey, but it worked, and I'm glad they did it.
Great move. Finally we get a real manager, since Cito's 387 career RBIs trump Gibbon's 2. Still, I won't be satisfied until Gillick is GM, Beeston is President, and Manny Lee is back at shortstop.
Seriously, I wish all the best to Cito (who should have been back in the majors long ago) but I don't really see how this team is going to improve with this move. This move certainly smells of Godfrey and puts JP's tenure on life support. I just hope JP doesn't make any desperation trade involving Marcum or McGowan before he gets canned.
oh yeah ball players, the same guys who won't step on a line out of superstition, or who have near compulsive rituals at the place.. and especially tabler, who I'm sure you could find hundreds of retarded things he's said with a week's worth of transcripts..
Okay, seriously, you guys going on about bringing in Gaston just pandering to fans, give me a break. He's the most qualified guy on the Jays' staff to take the job. It'd be this or Butterfield in all reality. What do you want? This is more about firing Gibbons than hiring Gaston.
Having said that, I think the optics of bringing Gaston in and getting some heat of Riccardi over Dunn were a factor on the timing, but not the decision.
Wheels, I guess I'll have to go back and look for your negative Gibby comments during the 20 win month. I'm sure I'll find a pile, right?
Major props to Gibby for going out with class. Some quotes:
"You never really anticipate it, there's always that possibility," Gibbons said during a conference call. "We were struggling, there's no question about that. Hopefully change is good. I'm still a big fan of these guys and I want to see them succeed."
"If it just affects me, that's one thing," said Gibbons. "But when there's other coaches involved and that's their livelihoods, that's what really bothers me.
"You deal with that and life goes on, baseball goes on. I got a family, heck it isn't the worst thing to spend a couple of months with my kids."
Showing up once a week during Spring Training is hardly in the organization.
We'll see, but I don't think Gaston and his senior citizens are what you'd call a good baseball decision.
Remember at the end of 1997 when he basically quit with a week to go? I'll have a post later, but suffice to say I'm not big on Cito.
Cito Gaston is the last competent manager the team has had. And short of firing JP, it's the smartest thing they could've done. Now if we can just get rid of Riccardi.
And Stedron, I'd love to eat more crow on this hiring and see this team maintain a good record. I'd absolutely love to be wrong.
Actually, I agree with everything you've said here.
I'm curious more than anything, but I hardly think this is the best move by a long shot. Gaston hasn't coached in the big leagues since 2001 and hasn't managed since 1997.
How many more seats is this really going to fill? I think that if this is a PR move, J.P. et al. have grossly overesstimated the impact Cito will have on the unwashed masses' ability to stomach this team. Perhaps however I underestimate the collective unwashed IQ.
Fuck the heck?!
anything to help our boys HIT is fine by me..
Anonymous - You're right. Players are dumb. They should ban them from the games.
Parkes - I don't mean to be so combative, but I'm so desperate for something to work that the negativity was getting to me.
Dustin Parkes said...
Cito is out of the realm of possibility in Toronto. I will buy you season passes for next year if he's named full-time manager.
I think Dustin owes someobody season tickets for next year.
what bothers me more than negativity is apathy...
Showing up once a week during Spring Training is hardly in the organization.
Collecting a paycheque does make him part of the organization. All those bullshit "special ambassador" titles Gaston had were just ways to keep him tied to the Jays.
It's true. I'll be severely unhappy to buy whoever said that a season pass, or if they'd prefer a couple tickets to a game and beers for the night.
That's fine, but then don't turn around and say that Gaston somehow had expertise when it comes to this club. Who are the other special ambassadors? Pat Hentgen?
Parkes - It was me. I just posted as anonymous by mistake.
Swear.
From Wikipedia for Dwayne Murphy (or new 1st base coach): Murphy was embraced by the city of Oakland, and remained a local celebrity long after his retirement. An avid bass guitar player, he was also notable for helping fund and produce MC Hammer's first album.
lol.. he should jam with that drummer out front of the Rogers Centre.
Yeah, but he wasn't involved with anything. He probably just played the drums on his desk with two pencils.
I also think they're overestimating the impact this will have on ticket sales. Are people really going to come out to see a new manager for more than one series? Doubtful.
You're bashing Arnsberg because Burnett has had troubles? Seriously? He's freaking AJ Burnett....the guy is an absolute headcase on the mound.
McGowan, by the way, actually has better peripherals than last year. He's doing fine.
Based on nothing but how kick-ass Cito looks in the picture posted here I predict that anyone who pisses him off will get a judo-chop in the solar plexis. That is why this team is going to turn around. I expect big, big things.
I'm just surprised that they didn't go really old-school and hire John McLaren to coach third; I hear he's available.
And I'm with anon 3:59. I was generally a Cito booster when I was a teenager, but he hasn't managed in the bigs in so long - and wasn't his hitting coach tenure perceived as something of a disaster?
The Toronto Blue Jays have officially become the New York Islanders.
That's all I really have to say, other than hey, Parkes and Stoeten, stay strong in this difficult time! I agree with just about everything you're saying — Cito certainly gets me nostalgic and I'll be happy to see some success should it happen, I'll just be upset to then see credit heaped upon him and blame for the prior performance left on Gibby.
I gave J.P. too much credit, frankly. I hope this wasn't his move. Butterfield as the interim, new coaching staff next season would've been fine with me. This just reeks of desperation.
"Dustin Parkes said...
Cito is out of the realm of possibility in Toronto. I will buy you season passes for next year if he's named full-time manager."
I'll take my passes whenever it's convenient for you, Parkes. :)
Barra: Yeah, Cito post-1993 was generally seen as a total mess. Then again, a guy can change in a decade, right?
Of course that begs the question of if he changed into a great big league manager in that time.
Fact is, anybody could have managed those early 90s teams to a pair of World Series trophies, and anybody who's brought in now is going to manage to somewhat right this ship. If I had been named the new manager of the Toronto Blue Jays, think they'd hail me as a hero after the team kicked ass the rest of the season?
I *do*, for the record, predict this will turn the team around, at least briefly.
At least Cito can just wear his retro jersey for tonight, he won't even have to buy a new one!
@Adams - Anyone but Jimy Williams.
Everyone who was calling for changes is now so pissed off about the move.
I can't seem to understand what any of you wanted out of this whole situation. Did you want JP and Gibbons to stay on? Did you want JP fired but Gibbons and the rest of the coaching staff kept around? Did you want nothing to happen at all?
Who cares who the manager is? You can give a 10 year-old a series of flow charts based on various situations that come up in a game, and they would manage just fine. Virtually all decisions in a major league baseball game are made the same way by each manager, simply because those decisions have become evidence-based.
The point is, the manager doesn't matter. The same team could play 10 seasons with 10 different managers, and they would achieve the same record, give or take a few wins.
Also, I don't think that JP had anything to do with this hiring, he was likely forced into it.
ADAMS IS AN IDIOT...
ADAMS IS AN IDIOT...
"It's true. I'll be severely unhappy to buy whoever said that a season pass, or if they'd prefer a couple tickets to a game and beers for the night."
Ah, I see you've already acknowledged it. Well I just sent you an email (I think).
^^Stedron: touché, my good sir!
^^Lardo: I'm just going to assume you're responsible for 99% of the anonymous comments on DJF.
Well, I guess when a site gets popular, the idiots inevitably work their way in. Stupid people commenting is a sure sign of success, right?
^^ I'm evidence of that adams. self-HEYYYYOOOOO.
You spend to much time calling people retards but what you should be doing is looking in the mirror at yourself..
BAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMMMMMMMMMMMM
Peanut Butter and JAAAAMMMMMM
I think the only logical explanation for all if this, is that we've actually travelled back in time to 1991.
Where we're going, we don't need roads.
lardo: Green Eggs and HAAAAAAAAM!
all the other bullshit aside, the one upside potential i see here, as someone mentioned, is the hitting situation. the jays have been a great team - except they can't hit for shit. cito is a good hitter's coach. if he can get them to hit close to their potential, that should more than make up for any mismanagement of pitchers etc. hopefully he got the memo that we are using j-mac as a late-inning defensive replacement.
Man you guys are cynical fucks.
Don't you have a soccer game to watch?
adams and others, I fit in the "managers don't cost that many games a season" philosophy. What concerns me is the potential long-term effects of pitcher management - I may be just a mildly bitter Hentgen fan living in 1992, but long-term pitcher management is not something I see as Cito's strong suit. While there's obviously not a consensus on pitch counts, it seems that mainstream managerial thought on pitcher management has shifted significantly since 1997, and I'm not sure if Cito's views have adjusted.
And if this is just an interim appointment, then I'm not that concerned. My concern is more long-term, if he's a "success." I don't know how many people here read DePodesta's blog, but he had an interesting article about process v. outcome, and how relying on a good outcome even with a bad process is bad long-term strategy. Given that Cito's interim, if he's successful, people will just look at the outcome rather than to see if the process he uses is sustainable in the long term.
If that makes sense. I think I need to be drunker.
(And anyone who's not watching Croatia/Turkey should turn it on, now.)
Ya, I think they should have fired J.P. first and then let the new GM decide about Gibbons. They should have put the blame on Riccardi first. I don't know. Fuck.
That Football game was like submarine warfare. Hours of boredom, seconds of excitement.
Cito hasn't managed in today's landscape of a game. He managed in a completely different landscape, in fact. Someone will have to explain to him the importance of OBP in today's game.
But it will make the team more interesting to watch in the next few days, to see how a dinosaur returns to the reins. Especially because the rest of the 1993 coaching staff was rehired. WTF? But this is in a comical way.
It reeks of desperation. I can only hope that JP, and likely this staff, will be gone at season's end. The manager was never the problem and won't change that much ultimately.
I won't start caring again until JP is gone and a good replacement is found. I might remind you that even the Giants and the Pirates drafted over slot this year. All teams are getting smart now.
But still, this has been comical for me in a season I haven't given a shit.
And I also agree with the arrogant undertones of this move by JP that the fans are both stupid and that it'll cover up his own shit, and probably buy him some time with management as well.
Just remember, JP is probably gone after this season. If not, then seriously time to start finding another team.
ADAMS IS AN IDIOT... Quote
Priceless. Lardo , this was classic! First Gibby is fired, secondly Retardi, and hopefully Adams( Retardi's shill) will be as well! Retardi told me that : Adams doesn't even like baseball . HAHHAHAA!!!!
I'm not Lardo ,but I think that he is a trip though.........
Well, I guess when a site gets popular, the idiots inevitably work their way in. Stupid people commenting is a sure sign of success, right? Quote
You happen to be the stupidest Adams, there is no doubt about that. Idiot would be a kind word for you. Retardi said: Did you know that Adams is an idiot,he even doesn't like the Blue Jays?
Third, Keith Law on the radio said this was mostly JP's doing, with Paul Godfrey only completely on board.
Also, doesn't Arnsberg deserve some credit for overwatching a well-doing pitching staff?
I fell asleep watching Game 6 of the '93 World Series on ESPN Classic last night...
How long was I asleep?!
eli, how does keith law actually know that?
This move reeks of Paul Godfrey's decision making.
weren't the jays 12-24 when cito took over in '89? didn't they make the playoffs? aren't they in last place now? how is this bad again? cause fans may like it?
90% of the fans on sportsnet's website say this is a good move....it is having exactly the effect Godfrey wanted it to have. It appears DJF is in the vast minority.
90% of the fans on sportsnet's website say this is a good move....it is having exactly the effect Godfrey wanted it to have. It appears DJF is in the vast minority.
i knew the reasoning that the jays were 12-24 when cito first came in would come up. Seriously, just because it happened once, doesn't mean it will happen again. Second, a surge like that from a team is because of talent and partly just timing and dumb luck. A Manager cannot change a 60 win club to a 90 win club, or in this case, an 81 win club to a 93 win club.
I think managers do have an important role/effect on a team, and it depends on the bunch of guys and how they respond to the manager's style.
If this works, it might be because Gaston was the right man for the job, but the only way we'll know that is by keeping our eyes on DJF.
And Gibbers didn't seem to be the right man for this bunch of guys.
I would've given the interim a try too, Dustin.
I think you guys need a predictions page on this blog.
Hahaha... well, if unpopularity is a sign of hitting the big time, let it be known I'm now bigger than DJF. :)
"It appears DJF is in the vast minority."
GOOD. If these fuckers were agreeing with the majority of Jays "fans," there's no way I'd ever have started reading this shit. Most Jays "fans" are dumb as fuck.
I'm in shock about this too, but I'm not seeing it as a PR move. I'm seeing it as shock therapy, seeing as it wasn't just Gibby but most of the coaching staff as well. We can't overlook that 3 of the new folks coming in have hitting coach experience, which God knows can only help, and that I, for one, am glad I no longer have to wince every time a player comes near third base.
And why not do it with people who did it before? Consider what else was out there, why not someone who is from the organization like Cito? Don't discount that Butterfield will still be there on the bench to advice Cito. Our pitching coaches are still there to help Cito use the pitchers intelligently.
I'm sad to see Gibby go, everyone involved knows it's not his fault (I thought JP handled this well), but something had to be done. Just look at the tone of the entries in this blog in the last week. For a change that needed to be made, I thought this was well done and I'm interested to see if the therapy takes.
The worst part of course is that Marty York was right.
Even a broken clock is right twice a day.
Thank God, stable lineups.
Let's see what Cito learned while he's been behind the scenes for the past 11 years.
Rios back in the 3 hole, because that worked so well before. (Better than Rolen, maybe.)
No Eckstein. Amazing.
Do'c pitching. Maybe Gaston's doing the personal shortstop thing.
Meanwhile, Scoot walks to lead off.
Hey, I'm sorry, but did anybody during that interview with Cito think: "What the fuck am I fucking watching here? Is this really happening?"
Overbay hits into the double play on the comebacker, and Rios promptly hits a double.
After that double play, I was about to say: Welcome back, Cito. But then Rios with the double! Playoffs! Anyone else notice Rance attribute that double to Cito? Mind blowing.
Yeah, this is all quite surreal. Did you see the way he thanked Sam?
It's nice of the Jays to show Cito the GIDP MAD SKILLS.
I saw the double play, got frustrated but it was a comfortable, known frustration. The Rios double caused me to yell at the television "FUCK!'. Man, this team is going to kill me.
At least we haven't forgotten how to strike out with RISP.
References to Jason Bay being Canadian so far: 2
It's obvious that Rios either LOVES Cito, loves JP, or hates the shit out of Gibbons.
I get the Pittsburgh coverage on MLB.TV, so I'm pretty sure they're at 0.
13 pitches for Doc. He's on pace for an 8 inning complete game.
what is the jamie campbell reaction to cito? he must have said something gay to this point
so glad sportsnet west isn't televising the game, MOTHER OF FUCK.
Mench continues his brand of mashing lefty pitching, defined as getting to 3-0, then striking out looking on three straight pitches. At least Johnny Mac singled to get RISP for Doc.
I've heard no noticeable comments about Cito from Campbell. Most of the comments are subtle shots at the patience-at-the-plate approach of Gibbons and crew.
Mench got fucked on that at-bat.
Doc looks terrible at the plate. So awkward.
@torgen: Give me a break. 3-0 he takes a pitch, then the next two strikes are on the bottom corner and probably could have been called balls. If hit, probably would have resulted in a ground out anyway. Duke got the calls, had nothing to do with Mench not hitting.
yeah, those were shitty calls, but classic mench. swing the fucking bat, you got the two worst hitters up next
References to Jason Bay being Canadian so far: 3
We got one from the Bucs broadcast too. Does that bring it to 4?
Canada plays St. Vincent and the somebodies tonight in World Cup Qualifying. I'm excited, you?
There's the beak.
He stole that from you!
This is still really fucking weird, no?
I'm drunk.
eckstein woulda had that
I guess we can't say "Mac woulda had that" on that one.
Is Cito wearing his sweet shades?
No shades. It's not terribly sunny there.
Rios is Hot! Hot! Hot!
Cito was dead on about putting Rios in that 3rd spot.
Playoffs!
and rios once again says fuck you gibby
The shades ain't for the sun, son.
Can't blame the third base coach for that RISP no-RBI hit.
Poor Rolen.
That's an even easier out in the dome.
Does that count as a Bay is Canadian reference?
I wish Campbell would stop talking about hockey like I give a shit.
Talking about Bay playing hockey totally counts as a reference to Canada, because it's all we are known for
Canadian References: 4
Parkes etc, who should have Cito's job? Bobby Valentine? Ernie Whitt?
With our rotation and an attitude shift from Cito for the hitting lineup - these fine, (very popular pre-season picks) will finally do some damage in the AL East. Watch out Rays and Red Sox. The Yankees scare me as much as the Orioles.
If it was Bobby Valentine you'd have to wait for an off day so he could fly back from Japan.
Don't forget, Bobby Valentine did don a Cito-esque moustache when he snuck back into the Mets' dugout after being tossed...
So really, they're the same guy.
Pittsburgh guys talking about a perfect throw from Rivas to Barojas.
Is it wrong to assume that Rios didn't like playing for Johnny Gibbons?
YES! FUCKIN' RIOS! PLAYOFFS!
PLAYOFFS!!!!
That jam tastes good.
Cito's team looks a lot like Gibbons' team, so far.
Interesting.
Fuck you Mientkevitz.
DURRRRRRR!!!
(nice play)
If it was Gibbons' team, the 9 up 9 down would have been the first 3 innings, not the middle 3.
Yep, as predicted, Cito in a jersey and jacket in the Jays dugout is giving me that warm and fuzzy feeling.
If warm and fuzzy feelings win ball games, we are SET!
(God damn you Pittsburgh for having a stadium a million times nicer than anything in the AL, and a billion times nicer than the tomb of Ted Rogers.)
Oh so that's what a strong throw by the short stop looks like.
This kid should play more.
This is fantastic. We've got the bottom 3rd of the lineup going in the 7th. I wonder if Cito will pinch hit a dealing Halladay. Lol.
If it was 6-7-8 he might have been forced to, but 7-8-9 Doc is bunting unless it's 2 outs to him.
PNC is awesome, went last spring, blows everything else i've seen out of the water
Ever see that Onion article where PNC Park threatened to move unless Pittsburgh got a better team?
Dammit, I wanted to see Doc swing. Only started watching a few minutes ago. And I get a failed sac bunt? Boo.
Oh well... at least he didn't pull off the BIDP.
Why is Rance still defending Halladay's bunt as a great bunt? Dude! They got the lead runner! Get over it!
Aw. No Stottlemyre-esque wearing of the warmup jacket on the basepaths either? This shit is lame!
I'm watching the Bucs broadcast, and if I ever hear Hank Steinbrenner's name again, it will be too soon. I think I've heard him mentioned on every Extra Innings game I've watched this week.
Do you think PNC Park is nicer than AT&T in SF? AT&T is the only nice new park I've been to, although I'm going to see the Jays in Safeco at the end of the month.
Duke swings re-bar? Right.
We need the axe to fall into the TV broadcast booth.
Boy, am I glad I didn't include Gomez on the The Intangibles.
The textbook 1-5 lineout.
OH MAN! Please be OK!
ok, who just shit themselves
Shit!
OFF THE HEAD and he didn't go down. Wow. Terminator indeed.
Oh fuck, that was nearly a Parkes '04 incident.
Hey Lexus! Your fucking ad with the sound wave graphic thing is fucking stupid. Go fuck yourself!
That was scary, though on the replay it looks like it was mostly off the glove, rather than his head or shoulder.
/wishful thinking
Well, 96 pitches is enough. At least he walked off the field.
did Halladay just deflect a ball to Nails off his HEAD!? Sweet fuck!
another day-to-day injury that becomes a month
It was off his head, dude.
Did Halladay mouth the words "what happen"?
Good start now.
Sheesh.
Yes, he said, "what happened?" because he must have not known where he was for at least 4 seconds. It was a pretty crazy play.
Never say it can't get any worse than this, because it ALWAYS can.
Fuck, the last time Halladay got hit by a line drive he was in the middle of a career season just like this.
Mats Sundin is a fag.
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