Geoff Baker Pretty Much Nails It
Our friend Geoff Baker of the Seattle Times had a few thoughts on the whole Ibanez-to-Toronto deal that never happened. They're a little bit bang fucking on...
Why would Toronto do an Ibanez deal? I'd wondered that earlier. Until my buddies back east reminded me of a cardinal rule of covering the Jays that I'd forgotten about during my two years here. That optics mean as much back there as reality at times.
To realists, like most of you, and me, a snowball has a greater chance of lasting the afternoon in this Texas heat as the Jays do of making the playoffs. But in Toronto, the Jays could acquire Ibanez, then tell their fans they still have a chance and that they're going for it.
It's worked before. In that city, the team has told fans it's in contention if it begins September single digits behind the playoff leaders. Drives up the television ratings. And that's very important to Toronto baseball.
"I don't think we're in the middle ground," Ricciardi said. "I think we're in it. When you look up and you're under eight...within striking distance of the wild-card and there's still two months to play, I don't think we ever thought about us as 'Hey we're going to be sellers.' We've taken on the thought process that if we continue to add without taking anything away from us going forward, that we would try to do that.''
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23 rational and reasonable comments:
I don't know why people are ripping on JP before hearing what the fucking offer was.
Beacause Ibanez is a free agent at the end of a year, so giving up anything for him would have been a giant waste?
I think Baker is really oversimplifying things here (as he did time and time again when he wrote for the Star) by saying this was a deal purely made for optics...
the fact is that the Ibanez deal would have made a lot of sense due to the fact that the Jays need a bat, and could have offered Ibanez arbitration after this year, and if he accepted, they have a nice bat for next year... worst case scenario would be that Ibanez doesn't accept arb, and the Jays get supplement picks..
Beacause Ibanez is a free agent at the end of a year, so giving up anything for him would have been a giant waste?
A free agent with two draft picks strapped to his ass.
"Beacause Ibanez is a free agent at the end of a year, so giving up anything for him would have been a giant waste?"
Except if what you give up to get Ibanez is less than the potential return from the 2 draft picks, and Seattle is certainly stupid enough to make a trade like that.
And I wanted to respond to your post on MLBTR - "But... why wait for Snider when you can have Bay now? Since he wants to play here, he'd be a safe bet to extend. Keeps him out of the Red Sox hands, too. I'd make that trade straight up-- but I'm sure Pittsburgh would want more."
I think the answer to this question would be simple - when 3/4 of your infield has to be righty to begin with, how smart is it to lock yourself into an OF with 3 RHB? Thumping LH C are hard to come by, so you'd be restricting yourself to 1B and DH in terms lefties who can mash. The other factor to consider is the $, and when you aren't the Sox or Yanks that matters. Snider is probably about 2 years away from putting up the same line as Bay, but 6 years of Snider would cost about the same as one of Bay. Having the LH Snider with the $ to spend elsewhere would have been a better option than trading him straight up for Bay, we aren't that close to contending anyways that we can't wait for Travis.
Ari, so that means the Jays have to wait 6 years to compete again?
No. 2 years away from the same line. Learn how to read.
Geoff Baker only called bullshit on the trade because Raul Ibanez isn't caucasian.
It all depends on what the price was. If it had been Frasor & Tallet (for example) then it's a fine deal because those guys will be gone before next season anyway. Without knowing if someone key to the future was in it we can't say whether or not it was a decent idea.
Remember, Geoff Baker is the one who insinuated that the Jays were racist, so he may hold a bit of a grudge against the Jays and JP (as the venerable The Ack alluded to).
Ibanez is an upgrade over Mencherson before Wells gets back, and Stairs after Wells gets back. Then again, who couldn't?
I just find it difficult to accept that my team is out of it. In any sport, I will always root for my team until they are mathematically eliminated. After that, I just hope they finish in the bottom 15 so they don't lose their draft pick when they sign Manny. WHEN they sign Manny. WHEN!
When did you guys go so fucking soft on Baker?
I didn't want to read all of that but alls I heard is that Dave Pussy was in the deal and that made downright angry. That son of a bitch is arguably our best pitching prospect and them shit stains in the league office were gonna go ahead and trade him for a mid 30's, ugly lookin, soon to be free agent. And Pussy is part of the rotation right now with less than a month of service time! So you is trading a part of your rotation who appears to be here to stay to get an ugly son of a bitch to play the outfield and walk next year because you don't need him anyway?
I know you creampies get excited for the compensatory draft picks but I don't. I could be dead by the time they make the fucking team with the way I drink and that is if they ever make the fucking team. Don't forget that we actually drafted Pussy one time too for all you people that like the fucking draft! Fuck the fucking draft!! Just fuck it!!! Russell the love muscle is a royal penis. Aaron Hill may never play again. Rick Romero says hi. You can't win shit without pitching and we have a son of a bitch in the majors that we groomed for years that is left handed and throws in the mid 90's and we are going to trade him for a shit stain?!?!?! Holy fuck!!!!!! It's a good thing I'm in bed typing this because I'm ready to kick your fucking asses!!!! Assholes!!!!
I think that people need to realize that our favorite Bawstonian carpetbagger who represents just about every American stereotype that Canadians loathe is a lot of things (e.g. shitalker, thinks he's light years bigger than his actuall skill, shitalker), but one thing he isn't is a complete and utter moron. So he has that going for him
Ya, but does he have everlasting enlightenment in the afterlife?
Hey Lama! How about a little something for the effort!
I'm cynical about whether or not he really tried to get Bay or Ibanez. Seems more likely he just called up a G.M (especially with Bay) in order for the team to be mentioned at trade deadline time.
Couldn't the Jays offer him arbitration and then get a couple draft picks??
Fuck, can everyone say that?
What's the point of giving up prospects for draft picks? That does not make sense. If that doesn't make sense, you must acquit.
But seriously, with Boston lacking Manny, perhaps they slide a little? Let's see where we are in a couple weeks... maybe we gain a couple more games on wild card...
What I said above is unlikely since our pitching is a shambles right now, but i'm hanging on to the faint hope that the Jays stagecoach doesn't turn into a pumpkin by the start of september.
I may even watch a baseball game again soon.
Oh, and I know you all missed me while I was away. I accept your courteous 'welcome back'
^^ welcome back, ass hole!
I was in the asshole of Ontario - Windsor. I gazed across the river at Michigan's festering armpit. What a couple of 4 days. I'm gettin' ripped tonight... though hopefully at a pace that the evening requires.
Let's get shitfaced later.
/shaking head condescendingly/ Beau, Beau, Beau. You and your naive faint hope.
The Jays are racist? Then what are Barajas, Cito, Wells, Chacin(still in the minors), Scutaro, and Rios doing on this team? Baker said that? Whatta bunch of bull..........
wilner and mccown agreeing on baseball what the hell
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