Simmer Down On Snider
Alright, way to go Toronto. Another walk off! Thank you so much Blue Jays for setting the table for some more disappointment. Way to fucking go.
I remain steadfast in my prediction, despite injuries to Vernon Wells, Dustin McGowan, Shaun Marcum, Aaron Hill, Jeremy Accardo, Casey Janssen and Shannon Stewart . . . and the potential trading of A.J. Burnett and David Eckstein, that the Blue Jays will tease us with a meaningful series in late August before completely falling apart, only to rebound with some mean-nothing wins late in the season when they're already out of the race to put up a slightly above .500 record. So much to look forward to.
Speaking of looking forward (this segue brought to you by Mike Toth), can the Blue Jays media types (Mike Wilner and Bobby MacLeod) take a collective simmer down on bringing Travis Snider up to the big club two years too early?
Admittedly, disagreeing with Wilner is rare in these parts, so for the benefit of all the anonymous comment posters (aka Spencer Kyte) who clamour to offer us advice on getting our heads out of Wilner's ass and directions on how to stop sucking his cock, I'll say it again. I believe Wilner is wrong about bringing up Travis Snider over Kevin Mench.
According to Wilner:
Yes, you’d be starting Snider’s clock early, but he still wouldn’t be arbitration-eligible until after the 2011 season (assuming he hits well enough to stick), nor would he be eligible for free agency until after 2014. What’s to be lost by giving him a look?
Will forty games in the big leagues (assuming he hits well enough to stick) really make Snider a better player in the future? I can't see the benefit of "starting his clock early" to get a look at him now when he hasn't been given every chance to develop his obvious talent.
Wilner mentions that his eligibility for arbitration and free agency still wouldn't start until after 2011 and 2014, respectively. While that seems a ways down the road right now, an entirely different song would be sung in three and six years if Snider ends up being as great as we all expect him to be.
Furthermore, with his promotion to Double A, he showed that it takes him a while to adapt to a higher level of pitching. Putting Snider in a Major League lineup now risks melting any confidence he may have gathered by overcoming his early struggles in Manchester.
Many readers have also mentioned Snider's high strike out rate in the Minors, even going so far as to compare him to Adam Dunn. This begs the question, "What do we know about Travis Snider?" Do we know if he likes to play baseball that much? Do we know if he has a passion for the game? How much do we know about the player?
Posts
57 comments:
if nothing else, based on that picture, I think they should call him up for the Yankees series and have him sit on the steps of the dugout right next to Stairsy.
also, how great would it be if Doc put one right between the numbers on Cat-dick tonight. You know, just because.
Dustin, do you seriously think Mench is someone who's going to improve the team in any way?
At the very least Wilner's right about Matt Watson being more deserving, no?
My how our roles have changed.
Why does improving the team matter?
You improve the team long-term by not rushing Snider, no? A year of control over him at 28 is way more important than at 21. Give him at least another calendar year in the minors, unless he wows everyone next spring. No?
Haha. I don't think improving the team really matters right now. And I don't see how Snider coming up would do that anyway. Maybe I'm missing something, but the whole idea just seems so completely wrong, I'm surprised Wilner and MacLeod would suggest it.
Mench over Watson is a completely different argument though.
I'd have no problem giving Watson a shot. Mench already had his and didn't exactly set the world on fire. Watson's numbers the last little while are impressive, so why not reward him?
September isn't too far away.
I don't think Snider should be called up right now.....but Kevin Mench? Really? At least bring up a guy who might be a future piece of the puzzle, even as a spare part, no? Am I wrong here? Kevin Mench, the lefty masher who no longer mashes lefties?
I don't know, it just feels like Mench isn't a guy who makes the team better right now if we're still going with the "hey, let's see if we can't go on a little run here" scenario, or the alternative "let's see what we have for next year" plan.
Bring up the guy with the porntastic name. FREE BUCK COATS! Or even that burner Lydon. At least it would make things interesting.
I think we all agree that it make no real sense, even if he kicks ass up here. It's not like he's destroying AA pitching anyway.
However, I submit that bringing him up allows JP and his proxy Wilner to say: "See, we do have a prospect! My farm system is not shit! Who's Ricky Romero?" etc. That makes a lot more sense than this "improve the team" nonsense.
Bringing up Snider, to me, a cynical fuckface, sounds like a pathetic attempt to sell tickets and generate buzz by showcasing "the future".
I'd say sign Richie Sexson to platoon with Stairs, but Matty is a decent trade chip, so he'll probably be gone... Still... there's got to be someone who makes more sense. What's John Ford Griffin doing these days?
Or fuck it, I'll do it...
Now THERE's a way to generate some buzz. Four lucky fans get to take at-bats as the DH during every home game!
Silvestre, yeah, Wilner's wrong on this one, but come on. JP's proxy? I know you're not the only one to say it, but it's ridiculous.
Baseball? this guy doesn't like baseball!
I also don't disagree with Wilner often but I must say I'm on the other side on this issue with you guys. I don't think that shaking his confidence if he fails is why I'd hold him back. I'd hold him back because he's not tearing up AA, he's 21 and he'd just be DH'ing. He's got under 300 AB's in AA....give him the full year in AA. Next year, I wouldn't mind seeing him as a September callup if he is doing what he's doing now (and of course healthy). He should be able to get as many PA's in to continue his development rather than come up, sit on our bench for a majority of the time and get a small amount of at bats against the Bigs.
I mean, maybe the scouts are telling JP something that we all couldn't possibly know....but when Lind was tearing up AAA, he said he wanted to give him a full year there....how can JP have such a different philosophy on these 2 players (especially given their sample sizes)?
I'm confused.
The proxy thing was said somewhat tongue-in-cheek. I am just surprised Wilner would agree with this bizarro plan which reeks of desperation and short-terminess.
I don't even think it would be a good short term move baseball wise. I don't think it's going to draw a whole lot of people to the ballpark either. Maybe if someone overestimates the typical Jays fan, thinking that they actually know who Snider is.
There is no point in signing Sexson either. Let's just play out the rest of the year. Make some trades that will make the team stronger next year, and hope that resting McGowan is the right thing to do over surgery.
I have to say I'm surprised by all the calls for Richie Sexson (not because I don't think about adding his bat over WilkenMench). If anyone resembles Adam Dunn, it's him moreso than Snyder by a long shot. He's way cheaper but he's also way less productive than Dunn...Sexson's attitude has also been questioned a hell of a lot more than Dunn's.
The idea of calling up Snider is the dumbest thing in the world.
1) He's not ready to make a difference and has already been rushed a bit already.
2) This season is done anyway.
3) Why start wasting our time to control him on a wasted season?
It shouldn't be Mench, but some other youngish guy. After the allstar break I want to see Purcey and guys like Coats over Mench and Wilkerson.
Now, I hate Bonds for every reason there is to hate the cheating douche.
But, he is a very good fit here. I would actually do it now. That's if he can be signed without incurring a fatwa from Osama bin Selig.
See Billy Butler for the case against aggressively promoting a Snider-type bat.
And the "cynical fuckface" argument from Marc Hulet (who is not a cynical fuckface) at Fangraphs back in April:
One cannot help but wonder if Jays general manager J.P. Ricciardi has a sense of urgency to prove his amateur draft track record. Ricciardi came to Toronto from Oakland in November 2001 with a strong reputation for player development but only one of his first round draft picks has had an impact to this point (second baseman Aaron Hill).
Toronto has also failed to make the playoffs or show considerable improvement since he took the organizational reigns. The organization has also been involved in three high profile player disputes in recent years, involving Ted Lilly, Shea Hillenbrand and Thomas.
As a result, it might be make-or-break time for Ricciardi. By showing ownership that help is on the way - help acquired under his watch - the general manager may be thinking he can buy himself some time. Let’s just hope that is not the case. I’d hate to think someone who should know better is putting a promising player’s career at risk by rushing him through the system.
http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/snider-movin-on-up-to-the-east-coast
Good point on Butler.
I went to the Jays games in Pittsburgh and after the game I was listening to J.P on ESPN radio. He said that the club was bouncing around the idea of bringing Snider up.
As for control of him...who cares? The Jays will probably sign him up for an extension beyond his arb years anyway a la Rios, Hill. Snider will be here for the prime years of his career whether they bring him up this year or next year.
Free agency at 27. Arbitration and free agency eligibility are part of negotiating a long term deal when a player is still in his arbitration years.
stick it out;
don't swallow the poison.
--Rush
Hey guys, do you check your DJF e-mail often? What's the addy? Got something here for you.
Alternately, flip me an e-mail at aaron@kanuck.net from an address you actually do check.
What is with Ricciardi's man-love for Mench and Wilkerson?
At least Gaston appeared to be thinking "Why the fuck is Wilkerson starting on a regular basis?" when he replaced Gibbons.
Parkes,
1) I don't drop anonymous comments dipshit - that's bad form. I'd come right out and tell you you're blowing Wilner, which you often do...
2) You're bang on about Snider. Leaving him in the minors makes the most sense. This team isn't going anywhere, so why mess this kid up by rushing him? The Billy Butler analogy is a pretty good call...
3) Any thoughts on Burnett to Philly?
drunkjaysfans@thescore.com
isn't it thescore.ca?
email parkes at his personal address
analbumcover@pride.net
Hey, why not sign Sexson? We could just assemble ALL of the hitters who weren't good enough to cut it with the Seattle Fucking Mariners, and put together one hell of a potent lineup.
Hey, why not sign Sexson? We could just assemble ALL of the hitters who weren't good enough to cut it with the Seattle Fucking Mariners, and put together one hell of a potent lineup.
^^double posting douche.
manlove69
He changed it to bobbybrown@towerofpower.net
Weird how manlove69 was here like only a minute after Beau.
You're a sly one Spencer.
I don't really care where Burnett goes just as long as the Jays do better prospect wise than they would if they kept him.
Eric Smith is talking about Wayne on the FAN right now.
Brilliant Dunn joke
Dave Feschuk has a pretty good zinger in an article today:
So if you're updating the ledger Wells has, since inking a seven-year, $126 million extension, followed last year's statistically dismal campaign with this year's statistically dismal and injury-riddled one. On the bright side, enraged gadget geeks can take comfort that the iPhone's isn't the only Rogers contract that's poor value!
Hey now!
I believe you mean "Hey-o!"
Also, I love how some people are so fucking confused that when Wilner suggests calling up Snider, they criticize JP for rushing the kid.
I believe you've never seen the Larry Sanders show.
I believe we're not on the Larry Sanders Show.
I believe cultural references are acceptable outside their origins.
I believe that you are right, and that I was merely pointing out that "Hey-o!" is the more commonly used expression on DJF.
Furthermore, I believe that I have no more to say on this topic.
Can I defend Wells for a second? He's not hitting that bad. He has a 778 OPS and the average major league CF this year has a 743 OPS. His defense has slipped a bit but also remains a bit above average. So even this year Wells was an above average CF. That's not worth 18 million, but its worth something. And injuries are injuries.
Let's just say he has a really good year next year. I'd probably trade him and eat 45 million.
If you think about it, the Jays literally are paying wells 19 million over the first two years. Since the AAV is really 18 million, then eating 45 million is really like eating 28 million over the last 5 years, when he's on the wrong side of 30. The buying team would be getting him for 5 years at 12 million per. THe sunk cost would be 6 million a year for 5 years when Wells might not be a CF anymore, and a pretty average corner OF.
You could do this also after his 3rd year here. The contract is not immoveable, but at the end it could get ugly.
also, its free slushee day at 7-11 fyi
i'd rather resign roy halladay long term. And OF seems to be fine for the future. Rios' bat holds at CF even if the power doesn't come back.
last thing, if you do eat a lot for Wells, you could even be getting a good prospect back. The Rangers gor ALfonso Soriano from the Yankees when they ate 70 million to send Arod to the Yankees.
Not a bad idea, eli. I would definitely only do it if you were to get a quality young player back. He's nowhere near the level that you'd purely want to dump as much of his salary as possible.
Is he overpaid? Sure. Most guys who sign free agent contracts are, and that's basically what they gave Vernon (no hometown/early re-signing discount).
I hope Snider keeps those shades when he eventually does come up to the Jays. It might even prompt Cito to bring back his old wraparound Oakleys.
I agree cool shades. Looks like Stephen Dorff, remember him?
I don't want to remember Stephen Dorff. The best thing he ever did was disappear from the cultural consciousness.
At least he had a sweet name. Like Dorf on Golf, but with a funky, "out there" spelling. Radical and gnarly if you ask me.
Hey man, Stephen Dorff's fake Liverpool accent rocked in Backbeat.
Also, Rios is out tonight (to see the birth of his illegitimate child) and Mench got the call for Syracuse.
So we can all settle down.
Why Mench?
The guy is useless. Russ Adams is even better than Mench.
You know those stupid Labatt ads where some douche bag provides commentary on some sports topic? Anyone hear the one just now where the guy paraphrases a Griffin/Simmons column, calling for JP to be fired? What the fuck?!?!?!?! You take out a fucking radio ad to call for a guy to be fired? Give me a fucking break. When Interbrew owned the team, they sucked too, so fuck you Interbrew for that stupid ad.
JP should have called up Stephen Dorff, what an idiot! Fire JP
JP should be replaced by Stephen Dorff.
That's pretty weak on Rios' part. My grandfather missed seeing the first of his first child (my mother) because he didn't want to miss the big Brandon-Winnipeg junior hockey game in Manitoba. And he was just there to watch! Alex is actually a players, so what the fuck.
Ok, so maybe I overstated it. Tall as he is, Alex is not "actually a players"; he's only one man.
Post a Comment