Wednesday, August 13, 2008

Stoeten Answers Griffin's Mail Bag

Pretty weak collection of questions this week, quite frankly. I really need some better readers. No Scott Richmond bullshit, at least. Enjoy!

Q-I just got back from backpacking through the Andes for a month and I can't believe the Jays did not go after Jason Bay. That was one chance J.P had to get a little grace period from the media and fans and show that the Jays are still trying to win and make a move for the wild card. Instead we get to see Bay tear up the Jays’ pitching staff in a Red Sox uniform. That's unforgivable. That combined with the Richmond call up clearly show that J.P. has no idea where to go or what to do anymore. How long does J.P. last at the helm or is the upper management just as inept as Ricciardi? You were right about one thing, with Cito managing they will linger at .500. Too bad .500 doesn't get you into the playoffs. Give us hope, Richard, what is the future of this team? Sorry for the rant, a loyal fan and reader.
Jonathan Sanchez, York


Holy fucking Griffbait, Jonathan. Way to work in a whole lot of bullshit at the end of an almost-reasonable question. The Jays' future is fine. They need a king hell DH and someone to pick up Burnett's innings next year and they should be right in the thick of it. But as for this year, um... I'm not sure how to break this to you, but the Jays were just as shitty in the month that you missed as they had been all season. Since JP's been around the Jays have really worked hard at trying to tell their fans that if they're within 10 games of a playoff spot by about this point in the season, they're still in contention. Of course, that's bullshit. I mean, I guess it's technically true that they have a chance, but come on. The Jays aren't in a playoff race, and they weren't at the trade deadline. So, picking up a player like Bay for the stretch run made little sense-- especially for the price being asked, which reportedly was Marcum and Snider. Bay's under contract for one more year, and while I was saying on deadline day that it might not be a terrible idea to take Bay now instead of waiting for Snider, it just doesn't make sense when you consider the rammifications on the budget. Throw in Marcum and it's a terrible deal. I guess it sucks that one of the best Canadians in the game ended up on one of the Jays' main rivals, if you care about that sort of thing, but for fuck sakes you can at least take consolation in the fact that he's no Manny.

Q-Richard,
With the Jays in definite need of "pop", do you think they will consider trading Lyle Overbay this off-season to make space for a heavy hitter? Would they consider moving Lind to first to make space in left? Could they reasonably expect to find (and sign) a quality home-run-hitting LF or first baseman in the trade or free-agent market?
Thanks, Corey Perrin, Hamilton, Bermuda


It certainly looks like the Jays are going to have a bit of a log jam at the corner OF/1B/DH positions in the coming years, and you're absolutely right that Overbay is the most likely one to move-- eventually-- and that Lind might be asked to play first. But that scenario doesn't really come into play until Snider forces their hand. The Jays will sign a DH/1B/LF type this winter, and when Snider is ready to play every day, he'll have to supplant either that guy, Lind or Lyle-- so, unless they wind up with another Frank Thomas on their hands, the Jays will almost certainly have to move Overbay and then shift someone else to first base. Lyle only has two years left on his contract after this one, and though he hasn't been producing enough to warrant the cash he's still owed, he's hardly unmovable, especially if the Jays are willing to eat some cash money. But keep in mind that the Jays probably aren't ready to pencil in Snider for Opening Day 2009, so don't rush out to get tickets for the Overbay farewell tour just yet.

Q-Richard,
I love your column. With respect to A.J. Burnett, there is so much talk about his opt-out clause, a possible trade, etc. But on the flip side, why would he not want to STAY with the Blue Jays? He makes a ton of dough, the Blue Jays have a very good starting rotation and perhaps the best bullpen in the American League right now, and they are probably two better bats away from seriously contending? Furthermore, is it not true that one of the chief reasons he came to Toronto was because of pitching coach Brad Arnsberg? I look forward to your comments.
Frank Hannon, Penetang


The thing is, Frank, there just aren't many guys like Roy Halladay, who are willing to earn less than what they're worth because they're comfortable where they are. With AJ's injury history, and the fact coming off this year his value will probably never be higher, it makes zero sense, financially, to push his contract year back two seasons, and to play at a below-market salary. He might like it here, but it's almost a guarantee that in the long run he'd be leaving a fuckload of money on the table if he didn't opt out. Careers don't last forever, so it's hard to fault him for wanting to get as much out of his golden arm as possible.

Q-I am a new Blue Jay fan but a neophyte in terms of baseball knowledge. I have some quick questions: 1) What does it mean when a pitcher is "spotting his fastball" or has "good command” of his pitches? 2) Why is it more difficult for a left-handed hitter to face a left-handed pitcher (and vice-versa)? 3) Why aren't catchers better hitters because of the time they spend behind the plate, their familiarity with pitch sequences, etc.?
Ryan Brenner, Wasaga Beach


1) It basically means that he's throwing the ball with great precision to exactly where he wants it to be. Not to sound condescending, Ryan, but it's pretty tough to throw a baseball-sized ball to the exact place that you want to be from 60 feet 6 inches. To effectively keep his pitches from being hit, a pitcher can't just huck one into the strike zone-- he needs to be able to throw the ball to different areas inside, and outside of the zone. When he's able to hit those spots well, he got "good command" of his pitches.

2) A left-handed hitter is on the same side of the plate as the lefty's throwing arm, so the pitches start off looking like they're going to hit him before they break (move/curve) away from the hitter's body. It's a little more difficult to pick up the path of the ball when you're being thrown to in this position, and those extra fractions of a second that it takes for a hitter to recognize whether the pitch will be a ball or a strike and when he needs to swing the bat to make contact give a left-handed pitcher a slight advantage against lefties. When the pitcher is throwing from the other side of his body, it's easier to see the pitch that's coming at you-- and to feel secure that you're not about to take a fastball in the ear.

3) The reason that it's hard to find a good hitting catcher is because it's such a specialized position. Catchers need to be big and strong enough to block the plate, quick and soft enough with their hands to receive the pitches, durable enough to do all that crouching, and sharp enough to call a good game. Plus they need to have a strong enough arm to keep runners from stealing at will. These requirements eliminate a huge number of potential catchers, and a lot of the guys they don't eliminate are better suited to other positions. So, it's naturally a shallow pool of guys who are suitable to use behind the plate, and the ability to hit like a Joe Mauer or Victor Martinez, in addition to the other skills, isn't something that most teams can afford to hold out for. The fact that catchers are so familliar with what pitchers might be doing doesn't usually translate. Sadly for those of us sitting behind a computer and reading about the game, it's really hard in baseball to use your wits to make up for a lack of raw or instinctual talent. Knowledge like that can absolutely help, but it's not exactly going to turn Rod Barajas into Babe Ruth.

Q-The other day I was watching ex-jay Justin Speier pitch when suddenly, it hit me: his windup is absolutely a carbon copy of Jeff Reardon. Now, I know that Speier's dad played with Reardon in Montreal. Did Justin learn this from Jeff as a kid or is this just a psychic coincidence? I guess as a token Jays question: at the risk of circling the carcass early, how about Dan Duquette as a replacement for the mighty J.P? He really laid the groundwork in Boston for this run of success and it wouldn't be too far a drop-off for you guys in dealing with a big ego....just a thought.
Dave Jenkins, Ottawa


I absolutely couldn't tell you about Speier's delivery, though you're right, his dad played in Montreal with Reardon for couple of years. As for Duquette, I'm not going to lie to you, I don't really know much about his career beyond the places that he was GM, and even then, I don't know how much credit to give him for the '94 Expos or the '04 Red Sox, seeing as he was no longer with either franchise when they had their major success. It would take a bit of a research project to get to the point where I wouldn't be talking out my ass on this subject, so I guess I'll just pass. Maybe the Jays should hire him four years ago and then fire him last year.

Q-Richard,
I know that Adam Lind has probably solidified the LF spot but how could the Jays pass up two rookies for Jason Bay? JP has to go if he can't bring in the top players here. I'm as frustrated as many Jays fans that this team can't put together a winning season. If the Rays can do it so can the Blue Jays!
Chetan Rakieten, Phoenix


The asking price for Bay was, in fact, next year's #2 pitcher plus one of the top 10 prospects in all of baseball. The Jays could easily pass that up. But yeah, JP sure has struggled bringing in top players. Burnett? Ryan? Thomas? Glaus? Rolen? Who are those pieces of shit?

Oh, and the Rays! You brought up the Rays! Because, y'know, a team that flat out fucking sucked for ten years finally starting to reap the benefits of all those draft picks and assets traded for prospects is a real good comparison to a team whose fans start shitting in each others mouths out of frustration if they're below .500 in April. No, let's not bring up the Rays.

Q-With the Jays playing better under Cito, do you think J.P. actually has a chance to save his job? J.P. now can say he makes all the right moves during the off-season and blame the sub .500 performance on John Gibbons. If Vegas has a line on J.P. as a GM for the ‘09 Jays, what will that line look like and should I bet on it?
Dave P., San Jose


Well, Dave, the Jays really aren't playing that much better under Cito that they were under Gibbons, and I think it would be a real hard sell if JP tried to claim that it was Gibbons who kept Lind down so long, or who kept rolling out Zaun and Eckstein, when it seems clear that the team is better off with Barajas and either Johnny Mac or Scutaro. But I don't think you're wrong that JP will be able to say that this team is only a couple off-season moves away from being a legitimate contender-- because that's actually quite true. Though I agree that JP might not be around long enough to see it happen. As for the line Ricciardi coming back, if I was a betting man-- and I am-- I'd still probably only be able to tell you that it's 50/50. The bigger fish is Godfrey, and if he goes, JP will too.

Q-Thanks for your insight on the Jays every week. I just wanted to know how Jesse Litsch is doing. Is he regaining the form that he had prior to his last eight games in the majors? While Scott Richmond and David Purcey are doing a good job of filling the No. 4 and No. 5 holes, our pitching staff was just that much better with him and McGowan rounding out the rotation. Most of the readers will call me delusional, but I'm still holding out hope that they can pull a strong August and get back into the thick of things after the series with the Red Sox, Yankees, and the Rays. If that's the case, Jesse Litsch might be a better fourth starter than David Purcey based on his experience down the stretch. Any updates on Jesse?
Louis K., Richmond Hill


You're delusional. No, not just because you're still holding out hope for the Jays making a playoff run this season, but because you think that Litsch has experience down the stretch. When? Last year when the Jays were coasting their way to another .500 season? I'm pretty sure that means exactly nothing.

Anyway, it's a moot point. The Litsch is back.

Q-Love reading your blog. I'd like to add another viewpoint on J.P.'s handling of the Blue Jays. He has developed a pattern of taking action when none is required. The latest is announcing that Cito will be back next year. Not to say Cito isn't deserving, but why in August when J.P.'s future isn't secure? Then there was bringing in Eckstein when he already signed Johnny Mac to a deal. Or signing Josh Towers to a deal after a so-so year. Or throwing mega-bucks at Frank Thomas when no one else was. Or bringing in Shannon Stewart after signing Reed Johnson. It's like he just can't keep his hands off the team. His decisions have wound up costing the Jays a fair amount of money and have hurt the club more than helped it. Maybe he needs to get a hobby.
Bo Buczko, Toronto


What the hell? I think you're talking about some completely different things here. I mean, I completely agree to you that it's absurd of JP to have declared that Cito will be back next year-- though what else is he supposed to do, say, "Shit, I really should wait to see if I get fired before I say anything like that."-- but how exactly does the other stuff qualify as taking action when none is required? But OK, I'll bite, let's talk about this shit.

Now, it's really well fucking documented that Ricciardi-- like most people-- did not believe that Eckstein would be available when he re-signed Johnny Mac. And you just can't argue the logic that went into the move. The Jays obviously needed hitting, and even though Eckstein has done pretty much fuck all, it made sense. OK?

Towers? He actually had a pretty good year when JP signed him, and it's not like it was a contract that absoluted killed the Jays. Mistake, though. No doubt it's a mistake. But off the season he had in 2005, with nothing better sitting around, it wasn't bad. Sort of. And taking action when none is required? Pretty sure they needed to sign a pitcher there.

Thomas? Again, that one really didn't fucking work out-- though I must admit that I thought at the time that the vesting option was a good thing, which was protecting the Jays in case Thomas got hurt-- but, um... what was he supposed to do, not bring in a big bat? Yeah, maybe not so much money for a guy who looked so ripe for a decline, but for fuck sakes, it's not like he had the perfect team and then fucked it up by bringing in Thomas. What the hell are you trying to argue here? That you really don't think anyone else was going to sign Thomas? Bravo.

The Stewart and Johnson thing I won't get into again. It's very easy to explain why it made sense at the time, and people just can't get their fucking heads around it because they want so desperately to shit on every single move Ricciardi makes. Fuck off.

Q-I decided to look up the stats of Syracuse this morning and who should I find batting last night was Travis Snider. My first thought, "Great, can't wait to see him in the big leagues." My next thought, "Who does he replace?" Lind isn't going anywhere - he's cheap and productive. So that leaves Rios and Wells. But they're the future of the franchise, or so we're told. Assuming Snider continues to hit the way he does, how do the Jays fit him in? Is he a future first baseman?
Derrick Crowe, Toronto


Kind of tackled this earlier, Derrick, but it would make more sense to move Lind to first. Neither is a Gold Glove outfielder, but Lind is a little taller, which maybe would make him a better candidate at first. I haven't seen Snider field, so I don't know who's better out there. Regardless, it looks certain that, when the time comes, Overbay will make way for Snider in one way or another. But again, don't expect the Jays to ditch Overbay in the off-season. They're not ready to hand the keys to Snider just yet.

37 comments:

Anonymous said...

Unkie Griff is looking down at you, filled with pride

j t s said...

Welcome back Wells !

bs said...

i miss wilkerson, oh and rios got let off the hook BIG TIME with that bad hop

sp said...

Isn't the point of these mailbags to mock the dumb questions? Most of them were pretty sane this time. Still, good insight though.

sp said...

Interesting to note that Vernon, without the games missed, would be on pace for 25 and 117 RBI. That's not bad at all considering how awful everyone else has been. And imagine him with a legit cleanup hitter supporting him for the next few years? Does he deserve that contract? Hell no, but we could make it a lot more worthwhile by giving him more support. Remember, he was an MVP candidate in 2003 with Carlos behind him.

Anonymous said...

"Line up protection" has been shown to be - with the exception of hitting in front of the pitcher - unequivocal bullshit.

hth

best regards

John

sp said...

I don't know nor do I care if the theory is bullshit or not. All I know is that Vernon Wells has had his best years with legit cleanup hitters behind him (Delgado,Glaus) and has struggled when he's forced to play the role himself.

Anonymous said...

Johnny Mac - Stop drinking from Rios' water bottle !!!

The Southpaw said...

Thomas was signed before V-Dub got his mega-extension. I'm sure at that point JP wanted to insert a big middle of the order bat into the lineup to give himself the option of trading V-Dub or letting him walk after the 2007 season. Really, based on the years they had in 2006, a 3-4 of Glaus/Thomas didn't look to shabby going into 2007, no? But 3 years of Thomas was overkill, designed to get the instant answer on a "take it or leave it" offer. So I guess in the end it cost $8 million to avoid prolonging negotiations and risk seeing Thomas sign elsewhere.

I'm still convinced it was Godfrey who intervened on Wells, offering up that "Carlos Beltran money" JP had previously said he wouldn't be getting. Moving Wells at his peak value with a year left before free agency comes straight out of the A's handbook and it's totally conceivable that that was JP's preferred move after bringing Thomas on board. We'll never know, though. And I suppose you don't get credit for wanting to do something without actually following through on it, but still.

JW

Colin said...

The LF thing is all assuming the Jays find a DH. That's only one of many possible situations in which the Lind/Lyle/Snider thing is a non-issue or a very different issue. For example, should hell freeze over and Mark Texeira signs with the Jays. This makes Texeira and Overbay the DH/1B combo until Snider is ready to become the DH or LF.

It's also entirely possible that a combination of injuries and slow development mean there is no logjam until post-2010 (when I believe Lyle is a free agent anyways).

Or maybe the Jays sign a DH to a 1 year contract or trade for an expiring contract and the position is open anyways in 2010.

Anyways, my point is that it's way to soon to consider Snider being blocked, at least until we know who the DH is.

Anonymous said...

All I know is that Vernon Wells has had his best years with legit cleanup hitters behind him

He has also had his best years when he hasn't been injured.

hth

Best Regards

john

Anonymous said...

any justin.tv links?

Anonymous said...

Eckstein is sprinting down to first base ! (on a walk with two out in the ninth in a game that they're winning by 4 runs)

Lloyd the Barber said...

Griffbait?? Had I known that they were hiring at Fremulon Insurance, I'd have applied.

Good piece. If these are the emails they cherrypick to set-up Griff, image the stuff that doesn't make the cut??

Kieran Roy said...

Why Downs for the 3rd straight game, rather than Carlson or Camp?

Kieran Roy said...

See. I told now.

But now League for the third game, too?

WTF??

Anonymous said...

Damn, Downs falls downs

aapd said...

Alex, Alex, Alex

Anonymous said...

whenever League does the toothy screaming face he pitches like fucking garbage

The Manute Bol Experience said...

I thought he pitched pretty well tonight. He's looked nasty lately.

It's not like that was a real juicy pitch Renteria hit. It was like 6 inches outside.

sp said...

"He has also had his best years when he hasn't been injured."

All you have to do his look at his OPS+ in 2005 when he had to carry the team himself and compare it to 2003 and 2006 when he had Delgado and Glaus behind him. It's a difference of nearly 30 OPS+ points.


P.S. Fuck Rios.

Anonymous said...

the shot that Rios fumbled would have been out of the park if it wasn't hit to center

but he has been on it lately

I think he does the screaming face when his sinuses are stuffed or something, or maybe it's really weird nervous thing

Beau said...

Stote, why not post Griffs answers after yours?

melted said...

That was a satisfying answer from JP on the evaluation question. He hates Moneyball haha

snowles said...

Griffin must just pick names out of the GTA phone book and make up questions - I mean, seriously, are people that fucking dim? The amount of agreement and lapdogging that seems attached to the questions make me think he's full of shit and there's some real artistic license being taken, because his mailbags make me think he's either: a) retarded or b) so smart that he's making a career out of being an antagonist and acting retarded. Either way he's retarded - retard.

ari said...

"I'm not sure how to break this to you, but the Jays were just as shitty in the month that you missed as they had been all season."

"Well, Dave, the Jays really aren't playing that much better under Cito that they were under Gibbons"

Stoeten, the Blue Jays are 27-20 under Cito having scored 220 and given up 180. It's not out of this world, but it is the 4th best mark in the AL since he took over - only Tampa, Minnesota, and LA have been better. I think you're being a tad hard on them.

Anonymous said...

Why don't the Jays just use Lind/Snider as a dh instead of replacing overbay? One thing the team needs is a mashing dh, maybe snider could be that soon?

John Brattain said...

"Line up protection" has been shown to be - with the exception of hitting in front of the pitcher - unequivocal bullshit.

hth

best regards

John


Dude ... you need a lot more verbiage than that before you can tag that on the end of the post.

Check the TOS--if it ain't there, use your imagination.

Unless you're the genuine article (sucks to be you/me if that's the case) there's a five paragraph--400 word minimum before a BRJ can be tacked on.

hth

Best Regards

John (the one and only--barring a breakthrough in cloning technology or an almost 44 year-old after-birth wandering around in cut-offs and sandals that I am unaware of ... is my participle dangling again?)

Anonymous said...

hth

Best Regards

John

myself said...

Mr Brattain wrote a splendid article onthe Manny saga. Interesting read!

http://sports.sympatico.msn.ca/Did+Manny+Ramirez+play+dirty/MLB/ContentPosting_ChinMusic?isfa=1&newsitemid=1fa94d1c-fd6a-4148-9df5-035027a18f2e&feedname=Chin_Music&show=False&number=0&showbyline=True&subtitle=&detect=&abc=abc&date=True

silvestre said...

FYI, I have sent 3 questions to the Griff mailbag over the last few years and he published and answered them each time. Try it, it's fun! Two of mine were hard-core Griff-baiting though ("why is there no plan" and "Russ Adams sucks, I thought this guy was good at drafting, wtf?").

Alex said...

Stoeten, you need to slam griff more in these things :)

Stoten's Mom said...

Lind was drafted as a 1B, so he can play 1B next year, while Snider plays LF.

Dump Overbay for some random SS propsect(s) and were good!

Stoeten said...

I don't actually read the answers Griff writes.

Yeah, the questions in this one were a little dry.

Buck16 said...

Stoeten -- your head would pop off if you did.

He actually said (in regard to the Speier question):

A-Hmm. I remember bouncing young Justin Speier on my knee as a six-year-old at the annual Expos’ family picnic on the field at Olympic Stadium, but I don’t remember him looking up and asking me about Reardon and his delivery.

See what I mean?

Stoeten said...

Mom, I agree, but I also agree that the Jays shouldn't pencil in Snider for opening day '09 just yet. For one thing, they'll get to control him an extra year if they just hold off until June or something. Plus... OVERBAY!!!! DINGER!!!!!

Anonymous said...

P !

R !

E !

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