On Visiting The Rogers Centre Again
Last summer I spent more time and money at Toronto Blue Jays home games than the United States of America has spent in Iraq.
This season, due to a myriad of factors, not the least of which include my theoretical union to a conniving succubus who insists on visiting fancy restaurants without ever intending on glancing at the bill let alone chipping in, I have neglected my favourite team and the characters who observe them at the Rogers Centre.
With Travis Snider making his home debut last night, like a prodigal son I made my return to sneaking into good seats and getting ripped off on overpriced beer. Unfortunately not much has changed since my regular visits one year ago.
Despite an eleven inning thrill ride that made heroes out of the rookie Snider and the immensely likeable John McDonald, Toronto fans once again proved their incredible lack of interest in baseball.
In what other Major League city would fans flood the exit gates in the ninth inning of a tied game? Where else would a hyped up rookie making his home debut not even inspire those in the luxury seats to clang their jewellery together to show support?
We love to harp on the lack of atmosphere at the Rogers Centre and tsk tsk the Blue Jays marketing department for their ludicrous promotions, but the real finger pointing should be reserved for Mr. Casual Fan who claps louder for a neanderthal getting a free lottery ticket than he does for a strikeout or pitching seven innings of shutout baseball. It was sickening.
I'm not recommending losing your shit like a date-raping frat boy during every instance of the game, but a little bit of enthusiasm is not a high price to pay for showing your gratitude for outstanding performances or welcoming a young player to the Major Leagues.
I realize that this blog attracts more from the hardcore fan base than the casual fan, or at least the comments sections do, and perhaps I've been somewhat spoiled by that fact, but the Blue Jays home stadium itself continues to be a wasteland for knowledgeable and enthusiastic baseball fans.
Judging by a famous quote from Bill Veeck, that "the knowledge of the game is usually in inverse proportion to the price of the seats," I would wager to guess that the cost of tickets at Rogers Centre are among the highest in professional sports.
Update 1: Well, at least the typical Jays fan isn't as pathetic as certain fans of other teams.
Update 2: Neate Sager offers his valued take on the Blue Jays fan phenomenon.
Posts
137 rational and reasonable comments:
You have a girlfriend that never pitches in?
BWAHAHAHAHAHAAAAAAA
Yea, AND he goes to high priced restaurants when he owes people money!
I agree wholeheartedly about the RC, Parkes. Standing and cheering for a triple, or for the home pitcher to finish the strikeout and the inning, I've been told on _many_ occasions to sit down.
I, of course, reply that this is a baseball game, not a tennis match, and perhaps the wrong venue has been selected by said complainer.
Utterly ridiculous.
I HATE THE ROGERS CENTRE.
'Nuff said.
Anonymous knows you still owe me $330.
I agree. It is almost surreal, you get the feeling that you are missing something by watching the fucking baseball! I have been to about 4-5 other ballparks and nothing is even close to the apathy of the RC.
The more interesting question is why? I wouldn't think TO would be that different from other MLB cities in terms of socio-economics etc. I don't think it's as simple as "It's a hockey town", but I really wonder wtf.
It's because the place is an empty cavern. There certainly was atmosphere in there during the opener and the first twoonie tuesday. There's atmosphere when the Yankees and Red Sox are in town.
Seriously, fuck off about the people that are in there. When it's full it's another story all together.
Tropicana Field is a real party.
"...immensely likeable John McDonald"
Have you gone bananas? Anyone who likes Mac and his .530OPS is clearly a monkey.
How far do you think it would go if a no-nonsense guy like Halladay took a moment during an interview and just said, "and by the way, Blue Jays fans. Stop doing the wave. Seriously."
In 92 fans responded to Winfield like puppets. There's no reason why today's fans couldn't do the same.
To add to your point, I was on the subway on my way home from work yesterday when three high school students stepped on the train. They were dressed up in sports gear (you know those shiney pants with snap buttons) and one was carrying a basket ball. They were talking about he Jays. One said "Yeah the Jays suck. Their only good player is Halladay. They've never won anything and they haven't even make the playoffs since the 70s".
Now I hesitate to call these kids dumb because after they tired of "sports talk" they immediately launched into a conversation about junk bonds and their effect on the US economy. wtf?
I find the thing that gets casual bluejays fans up in arms about the most is balls just off the plate. They boo the umpire like crazy, but from most seats you do not have an appropriate view to know if the pitch was a ball or strike.
Then they proceed to trying to do the wave when the jays have the tying run on 2nd base in the 7th inning.
I saw yankees fans doing the wave during a critical at bat in the last series the jays played there.. so it's not endemic to blue jays fans...
-Alex
There is no atmosphere at the Rogers Centre whatsoever. Critical moments in the game are only celebrated if they involve a home run or inning ending strike out (with the latter barely getting people clapping let alone out of their seats).
The last game I attended I was asked to stop chewing sun flower seeds -- at a baseball game! Naturally I refused and chased those of the ludicrous request off to another seat.
It's all about the attendance figure. In a smaller open air park, you could get away with 25K crowds and still have an enjoyable atmosphere. In the Skydome (fuck "Rogers Center"), you need to pack 40K in there to have any kind of buzz.
On my Jays weekend pilgrammage this summer, I had the following sitting next to me:
game 1 - 2 oldtimers who knew their ball, applauding quietly. That was cool, these guys were 70+ years old and knew their shit.
game 2 - a southern gentleman and his wife, in town for some convention. Knew baseball, but was more concerned talking to me about how Conridge Holloway (spelling?) went to his alma matter and what a great college QB he was.
game 3 - a bunch of shitrat kids sneaking around from one seat to the next, being pains in the royal ass.
...the only Jays talk I heard outside of the 'Dome was some fucking Chachis informing me that "the Jays fucking suck" in response to me having the nerve of walking past them in my retro Jays home white. Luckily, I was two steps from my hotel when I drunkenly informed them that they should feel free to go fuck themselves.
how about andruw jones as a dh reclamation project? only 31, hit 26 and 94 last year.
Okay, this won't be very popular, but Toronto is a front-running city of epic douche proportions. It's a city that prides itself on being an international beacon, so it can't get behind things that are silly.
If something is suddenly and magically cool, though, it is not to be missed. See the Argos when Gretzky and his pals were rolling through. See the Jays when the 'Dome was opened and they were winning the pair of World Series. See the Bills blatant money grab and slap in the face of both Toronto (for the ridiculous ticket prices and packages) and Buffalo (for the obvious).
You'd think, though, with a city that large, there can't be THAT many front-running idiots and they could find 30,000+ to line a ballpark night in and night out.
Some people will take exception to this, but they should realize, if they read frequent this site, they ain't the ones I'm railing about, right?
Actually, the Bills money-grab didn't go over so well, at least for the exhibition game; the overpriced tickets wound up largely being given away for free. A friend of mine was handed a thousand-dollar pair on gameday for free.
Here's my theory: Toronto is a shitty city.
It's a crappy place to live, because everyone's a self-important dickweed; it's a crappy place to be a hockey fan, since the team is more interested in profits than winning games and the average fan is a muppet; and it's a crappy place to be a baseball fan, for the exact same set of reasons PLUS the fact nobody around here really "gets" baseball.
Alright. Anyone want to find me a city that's clean, more affordable than this shithole of a town, has people who don't think they're god's gift to the planet, and a baseball team that's got the scrappy underdog appeal I always fall for? I'd prefer a similar climate, too, although I could certainly deal with a milder summer.
Go back to Winnipeg. Explain the Leafs, then? Shit, they even get decent crowds now for the fucking CFL! (Who knows and who cares if the Argos are any good-- I think this year they're not)
The fact is, unlike a lot of shit holes, there's plenty of other stuff to do here than to watch a team shit the bed every night.
Hey the peg, the average attendance of Jays games this year is 29,025.
You're not going to get big, excited crowds unless the Jays are doing something to be excited about. The game last night, for instance, was fun to watch, but meant dick all in the grand scheme of things.
stoeten, I hope you weren't talking to me with your "fuck off to winnipeg" comment, because I'll throw down with you right now!
kidding, but it's hard to argue some of the logic....ie: that the city would obviously support the team by leaps and bounds more if it were a winner. It almost seems silly to argue that, because you could use the same argument for almost any sport in almost any city.
and doesn't your "there's plenty of other stuff to do if the team is shitting the bed nightly" counter kindasorta indicate the same?
The average attendance is boosted by 10,000 New Yawkahs and Massholes that scurry in like rats every time those teams come to town.
Still, averaging 29,000 isn't too bad... but when you consider that's what the Argos average, then it sucks.
And ther argument that there's lots to do in Toronto? Utter horseshit. There's plenty to do in every city. Baseball and sports fans aren't deciding between going to see Cabaret or the Jays game. They're staying home.
P.S. - I love the CFL. It's fun for what it is.
I've never been west of Thunder Bay; I guess I should have signed my last comment, huh.
Stoeten, I do have a very hard time reconciling what I see with the Leafs and what I see with the Jays, sure. I do have an idea on the matter though.
I really think it's a matter of our national identity being a bit fucked up.
I think a lot of people feel they need to differentiate themselves from others, especially Americans, to feel like proud Canadians.
At the same time, they also feel the need to be validated by others, especially Americans, to feel like cool Canadians.
Honestly, I've never understood why our so-called patriotism has to run along these particular lines, but it does seem to be the way it works out. Baseball's too American; fuck baseball. Hockey's quintessentially Canadian; let's support it blindly! And the more we get the Americans into our thing, the better. But we're not getting into their thing, not no way, not no how.
And so the same muppet fans who continue to support a hockey team that doesn't care about winning, refuse to even glance at a much more successful team sitting right in their backyard.
And I'm sorry, but Toronto, as a city, really does suck. I live here, and I recognize that there is plenty to do here, but the quality of the average human being in Toronto is pretty darned low.
If you're lucky enough to have grown up with, or otherwise stumbled upon, a tight circle of good people here, that's great; I, on the other hand, came to the city knowing very few people. I have met a ton of people in my time here. And I have kept up with very few of them, because the average Torontonian seems far too concerned with keeping up appearances. Everybody's too damned cool for everybody else, and if you're not down with that, you can go back to Winnipeg.
There's plenty of stuff to do in every shithole town; Toronto is not unique in this respect. It may have a plethora of bars and restaurants to frequent, and I guess if the idea is to go there with your friends and be seen, then it all works out fine. Heck, I probably do it more often than most. But I can't help but notice when I go to bars and restaurants in other places, people are friendly and, well, human.
Here, it feels like I'm stuck in a neverending episode of Wasaga Beach; which I imagine to be a show that's vapid and cliquish like Laguna Beach, only it's the Canadian version, so the production values suck and the talent is nowhere near as good.
And if I don't like it, I should leave. I know! That's why I'm trying to figure out where to go.
—adams
I think that we're going about this all wrong. We shouldn't be hating on each other here.
I assume that anyone reading these comments at 1 in the afternoon on a Thursday is a pretty die-hard Drunk Jays Fan. As as the slogan says, we are smarter (and more drunk) than the casual fans. We need to take this upon ourselves. Bring out your buddies - teach them some shit.
Parkes, here's a lesson for you; when my girlfriend met me, she felt the need to become an educated Jays fan. Otherwise, she wouldn't get to see me weekday evenings or weekend afternoons. You gotta set the precedence.
Adams, you're a fucking idiot. You seriously haven't been in too many cities if you think Toronto sucks.
Peg city, lets be honest, there isn't shit to do in Winnipeg.
Emigh, totally agree with you. This summer I was all pissed off again because I have zero friends out here who like baseball. So, I bought some tickets, took my friends to a game (Northern League), taught them a few things, had some fun heckling. Now a couple of them don't miss a Jays game.
And the chick thing is dead on, you gotta establish your priorities from the get-go.
I was going to suggest that the next "DJF's Guide to..." could be "Introducing a Chick to Baseball"
Man, would I love a chick who would fill out a scorecard.
Bullshit. There's no more to do in Toronto than in any other city. It's such a lame argument that it doesn't bear repeating. Maybe the coolness or need-to-be-seen factor is lacking, but it's still the same shit.
There isn't shit to do in ottawa, I'd hate to think about a city like winnipeg... I really wish I lived in TO, so much more happening there throughout the year...
Leave the wave out of this. People at Yankee Stadium was doing the wave during the 8th inning when the Jays had 1st and second no outs and down 2-1. Fans are fans. More fans=better atmosphere
Dude, Winnipeg is a shit hole of massive proportions.
The DJF Guide To Introducing Your Lady Friend To Baseball is a great idea.
Toronto is pretty great for being a big city. There's a whole lot wrong with it, but there's also a lot of things that we get right.
This post is more out of frustration than anything else. I see the passion on here and the baseball knowledge and the cleverness of people commenting . . . and then I go to a game and it's like cocktail hour at the Stifler house, but without the enthusiasm.
It's shitty.
On the Peg: I've only ever been there once, and it was alright, but the deciding factor for me when it comes to Manitoba's capital is that every single person I've met from Winnipeg has been balls out awesome.
I was at the game last night too and Parkes is right - it was quiet. We were sitting right on top of the Jays bullpen, which was cool 'cuz we could see BJ twitching nervously before he shit the bed.
And Christ did it ever empty out. I wandered over and got a seat behind home plate and even there nobody was making noise, except for some polite applause.
Great game though.
Dave...do you really want chick advice from the DJFs? They spend all day on the internet, like to photoshop, and play fantasy sports games. Which of those things says "Ladies man" to you?
Peg City...you're right, every city has stuff to do.
Everyone else: Chill the fuck out. During the years from 94-2000, the Yanks(you know, the team making the playoffs and winning the WS every year) averaged 32,561 a game. In a city with at least twice the population of Toronto(not counting suburbs and Jersey) in a country in which baseball is the national sport. During those same years, the Jays...who were quite crappy, didn't make the playoffs, and are generally an afterthought, averaged 32,887. Granted, for the Yanks, their attendance has gone up, (as has the Jays in recent years)but really, every city attaches to what's trendy at the time, and then to a winner, in that order. Toronto is no different than any other big city in that regard. There are exceptions, like with Toronto the Leafs will always sell out, and the Packers in Green Bay, etc...but for the most part, attendance in major league cities is set by trendiness/marketing, and winning. The "atmosphere" at Jays games will be better when they're playing for the post-season.
And the Argos? They're attendance now is waaay better than '91 with Rocket/McNall/Gretzky/Candy were in town. They were playing to just about no one, other than for the playoff game that season,which got 50k or so. I can't find any attendance figures though, so you'll just have to trust me. I was there. I had season tickets to the Argos for many many years, and the atmoshere in the last 8 or 9(I've missed the last couple of seasons due to where I live) has been the best I've ever experienced.
@ parkes - just fucking wait until my now-annual pilgrammage to T.O. next season.
@ brendan's "chill the fuck out" argument - Nails.
@ everyone else....look, there are 2 types of Winnipeggers....those who agree and tell everyone they know not from here, that Winnipeg is a steaming shithole (probably 90% of our self-depreciating population), based solely on the news that reports every stabbing in every slum and Main Street dive bar, that affects their everyday lives in exactly no way.
the second type of us (maybe 10%) realizes Winnipeg is pretty fucking cool - as Parkes said - because everyone here is friendly as shit and doesn't really care about what anyone else thinks anyway.
for the record - I've never not enjoyed my trips to Toronto. good times man.
Yeah, I'll second the ack. I've never had a bad time in Toronto, and he's dead-on about Winnipeggers.
The '94 strike was designed to kill baseball in Canada
emigh, yeah, but does your GF have perfect tits or two whippets that will lick peanut butter off your balls?
Always worth remembering when pondering the gate success of the Maple Leaves: 41 games @ 18,819 capacity = 771,579 seats to sell per season.
The Jays? 81 games at 49,539 = 4,012,659 seats to sell per season.
Last year, the Leaves were at 103% capacity, with 796,803 attending games.
The Jays were at 57.7% capacity for at total attendance of 2,360,648.
So clearly, the Leafs are the poor sisters in the GTA market.
You need to appear on that Comedy Central show: Straight Plan for the Gay Man. Shit you guys look totally unstylish, like a bunch of inebriated Jays fans. Oh shit, that's exactly what you bloody lot are!
PS Blame everything on JP AND Adams too.
I'm headed back to the Dome tonight for the first time in about a month, and I'm only half looking forward to it. I always end up hating people, haha.
You need to appear on that Comedy Central show: Straight Plan for the Gay Man. Shit you guys look totally unstylish, like a bunch of inebriated Jays fans. Oh shit, that's exactly what you bloody lot are!
Does he think that's us??!?
Brendan, I'm not looking for help from them. I didn't need to learn how to be a man at a baseball game or how to "punch kitty" or how to start the wave but the Guides are hilarious to read.
I think the topic would be amusing.
Ack, I really think it's silly of me to argue about the city of Winnipeg in a baseball blog but... Come on... ah fuck it, I don't really care. I just actually live downtown so the unfriendly side of Winnipeg you're talking about is the only part of Winnipeg I know.
It does have a kick-ass arts scene, though.
I lived either right downtown or just outside of downtown (across the Norwood bridge) for about 6 or 7 years too, dude.
but yeah, back to baseball...
Sarah, i'll see you there. Buy me a beer, won't you?
"emigh, yeah, but does your GF have perfect tits or two whippets that will lick peanut butter off your balls?"
stote, did you start posting under anonymous?
I for one was losing my shit over how good T-snides what doing, especially that at-bat against Nathan.
It was rather quiet last night but from the sounds of it a lot of you posters didn't go to the game anyways. so really... how can you complain? I know not everyone can make it to every game, but if you aren't at one then you shouldn't comment on the people that were there.
it wasn't exactly a stellar crowd, i fully agree, but it was a wednesday, and i really didn't hear any intelligent baseball talk going on around me. mostly casual fans, who you can't fully blame for not welcoming Snider the saviour as he really should be. from the people behind me : woman 'Who IS he?' man 'ummm... i dunno, he looks young, he must be pretty good or something.'
anyways, hell of a game, i hope tonight's is just as good!
Toronto is the reason people leave the Winnipegs and the Timminses and Cape Bretons of the world. It sucks there, and is awesome here.
I will attest to Winnipegers goodness though, everyone I've met is genuinely funny and fun. Their good sense is what gets them the fuck out of Winnipeg.
stote, did you start posting under anonymous?
i think the answer to that is obvious.
Can someone explain this to me:
Why is the TFC so successful in Toronto? Is it their winning attitude? The team's skills? A city with a passion for futeball? An excuse to get fucking wasted every couple of weeks wearing a red t-shirt and a scarf?
You should read the uproar the Argos caused when they said they were considering 'modifying' BMO to play there next season for whatever reason (which is irrelevant).
Anyways, Beau i think we should let sarah decide who the better blogger is before she commits to that beer purchase. After all it is like $10 fucking dollars! Check me out in section 113B!! haha
TFC's an expansion team. Give Toronto time to get apathetic about them. If they don't start winning, it'll come. The whole TFC "phenomenon" sounds so much like the Toronto Rock "phenomenon" from a few years ago when they were selling out the ACC. Anyone gone to a Rock game lately? Didn't think so.
Winnipeg sucks.
And the TFC success is driven by MLSE hype, they are very good at it.
-anonymous brad fullmer fan
Listen fucktards from Toronto,
Toronto is a great city and the CFL sucks. I'm an American and parts of NYC still look like Berlin after WW 2 BUT the Argos still suck. You guys live in a more civilized country BUT CFL is a pimple on the NFL's butt. How could Adams rip Toronto, it's like a clean version of NYC BUT very clean and a lot more Muslims and multiculturalists.
Roy Halladay for President, First Moron in Office! Not the first moron look at Clinton and Bush,BUT first Mormon.
Blame everything on Adams, JP and Wilner. The Iraq war, Rolen's shitty season and the fact that JP is still scuffling.
PS Wanna trade Obama for Halladay? You can have that Alfred E Newman lookalike.
Dave-didn't mean to offend your manliness. Meant to make fun of the DJFs though.
No-out bunt by Scutaro. Really?
"Marco Scutaro is one of the most intelligent players I've ever seen" - Rance Mulliniks. Really?
In what other Major League city would fans flood the exit gates in the ninth inning of a tied game? Where else would a hyped up rookie making his home debut not even inspire those in the luxury seats to clang their jewellery together to show support?
Answer: Florida Marlins
Not that I disagree with you, I'm just saying. Case in point, they had 600 PEOPLE AT YESTERDAY'S GAME VS. THE BRAVES. 600!!! They were saying the fans could hear the players and coaches talking on the field and in the dugout.
As much as we complain about our so-called "fans", at least we have some. I'll take 25k+ artards every day over 600 artards.
TFC has a smaller stadium and less games.
Any monkey can jump around drunk at a soccer field. I think that I prefer the apathetic jays fans to the idiotic TFC fans.
So, are we going to see 45's first home run tonight ?
By the way, on the shitty cities issue...I was born and grew up in Toronto but I went to uni at Georgia Tech in Atlanta. For some reason, Atlanta is always compared to Toronto and I have no idea why. Sure they both have world class universities, lots of homos, big airports, and shitty teams but Atlanta is no "worldly city" as people claim. There are vast areas of this city that are nothing but slums and undeveloped eyesores. The people are mentally retarded and boring. Braves fans are even worse front-runners and the fans in general suck except for the UGA Bulldogs. The advertised diversity barely shows because it's so segregated and there are so many damn white people. I can't imagine how they got the Olympics in 96 considering it was even LESS developed then. I guess the Olympics are why it's considered a worldly city but I call BS. Am I bitter about being jobless, poor, and posting on this blog? Yes. Fuck Atlanta.
the 2009 rookie of the year drills a HR to CF!!!
Hey anonymous 7:51 do have any lotto numbers or stock tips?
I called it kids !
4 infield singles so far
He crushed that ball too. A little bit higher and it was off the glass.
try 4-5-1
hey DJF - can we have a regular game thread? There's enough of us here each day to warrant it.
1.143 OPS!!!
Now that he's hit a homer, I'm petitioning we adopt Jessef's nickname for Snider: Moonraker. (Funny that Snider is 9 years younger than Moonraker.)
Is Rolen's entrance music Kashmir now? I thought it was Rollin'.
See, even SP understands that Toronto is a way better North American city than most.
Adams was completely off the mark with his comments. Big surprise there.
Travis Snider is a regular Brad Fullmer, circa 2000.
-anonymous brad fullmer fan
snider rules, litsch is dealin, i can almost forget we blew the season.
I'm gonna go out on a limb and suggest that Travis Snider is an all-star in 2009. Now that we've cleared that up, how does the 1-4 lineup of Rios, Lind, Wells and Rios compare with the lineup of Johnson, Catalanatto, Wells and Glaus that we had the last time we had a decent offence? I'd say (if Snider can do what Glaus did) that it is definately superior...
I meant Rios, Lind, Wells and Snider...
no one is superior to reed johnson, how dare you suggest that
Everyone look at 9:22 anon, and realize how hearts are broken.
CHRIST MAN, reign yourself in! You can't possibly believe any of that is going happen? Take a step back, appreciate this kid for what he's doing now, but fucking hell, don't set this team (and yourself) up for such a downfall.
Is that the third comebacker Litsch has induced tonight? Madduxesque.
Does anyone else think that Snider looks like a white Carlos Delgado at the plate? I'm not so much talking about his stance, he just has that intimidating look like he knows he's going to crush a mistake pitch into the seats
"Here comes Snider, here comes Rolen" - how does Snider reach the plate b4 Rolen when he bats behind him? Fucking Jamie Campbell and his useless broadcasting
About the Delgado thing, I guess I wasn't the only one. The way he extends on balls hit to centre left really reminded me of Carlos.
As much as I'm enjoying this I was hoping the Twins would get the wild card instead of the massholes.
The Twins won't win the wildcard cause they're a .500 team that benefits from a shit division, while the Jays are a 90+ win team in the AL Central
pretty sad, when are divisions gonna be thrown out? balanced schedule, top 4 teams advance is soooo much better
Problem with the balanced schedule is the travel.
Hey, Litsch pitched a shutout. Is that his first?
Fuck AJ
a couple of solid defensive big hitting infielders and the '09 Jays are looking badass
second
What a great game! Unrelated subject, but is anyone else going to the JC autograph signing tomorrow? And what is the etiquette with these things?
I just checked, May 24 of this year he pitched a shutout.
I'm sure if you could mention a moment in his career that wasn't the big dinger that you personally remember he'd love you. Retired players love it when you remember good moments that aren't really well known.
If I ever meet George Bell I'm going to mention him beating up Gene Nelson after Nelson plunked him in the ninth inning of a game in 89 that was 8-5 Oakland. This was after Henke gave up a moonshot grand slam to McGwire in the top of the ninth. I'm sure LaRussa had Jorge hit on purpose to rub it in.
George paused for a second and then went all superfly to the mound and started pounding on Nelson. He drew blood too, got in at least ten good rapid fire shots to the head like a hockey player.
All the while the stragglers in the stands were egging him on. It was glorious and it was also probably the game that got Jimy one "m" canned.
May 2 1989
Winnipeg's a shithole, but I got laid there the only time I was ever in town. Chick was NUTS. So Winnipeg's all right in my book.
Damnit - they cut me off as I was about to ask if somebody had asked for permission to talk about AJ!
Can somebody remember and ask next week?
Thanks for the talking points, DJF.
Fuck off Parkes.
Parkes, you fucking asshole. You call yourself a "man"? You don't let your ugly bitch emasculate you like that and not go to ballgames. Your "man" card should be revoked immediately.
By the way, can you get her to return my Rolex? I was double fisting her in the ass last week and I think it was vaccumed up in that wide cake hole of hers. I didn't think it was funny. That was only funny in Pulp Fiction. Hope the bitch shits it out soon.
The reason Snider reminds you of Delgado is not because of that one home run he hit but rather he has the same swaying of bat motion over the plate before he gets into his set stance.
Oh man, I was warned about you, anonymous. Your mother told me you'd be reading this blog tonight. At least I think that's what she said. It was sort of hard to understand her at the time because I wasn't the only one in the room. And her mouth was full.
re: the initial post.
I don't know...I distinctly remember a post earlier this year after the first home series with Boston that decried the atmosphere because it wasn't knowledgeable enough. Even though it was rowdy as shit. I would rather the Skydome turn into a cauldron of drunken Leaf fans who hate opposing teams than what it is right now, and I would like to see you guys acknowledge that the next time you are lambasting fans for being too drunk and unknowledgeable (if we are ever fortuitous enough to have that situation again).
I guess I don't really envision the atmosphere that you guys seek. It's supposed to be loud but have no casual (Leaf) fans? Is that even remotely likely?
"Hey you, vote for Tom Cheek!"
Refuge for the ultimate loser, breaking out the mom jokes.
I do like fucking your girlfriend in the ear. It's not like she has a brain in there if she's dating you so it's easy for my man cheese to squirt out the other side. And that thing she does with her glass eye, that's awesome - you must be proud.
Anonymous 1:19,
You are sick and crazy. Sometimes people like you comment on this blog. That is sad. You are not mentally right judging by the things you have said. That is sad too. There is no reason for you to be so hurtfull. Why would a sick and crazy person read this blog anyway? You should be getting help instead and maybe reading self-help books.
Go stuff some bananas in your twat. Parksie's woman loves that.
the guy all the way on the left looks like tallet
does anybody else still feel weird when they read an ap/cp recap of the game and see that cito gaston is actually the manager, giving quotes to the media?
i don't know, i guess it's still a little bit crazy to me that it isn't john gibbons, it's actually cito.
i've lived, in no particular order: ottawa, the peg, edmington (don king's word), toontown (sask.),
tundra bay, hamilton
cool things can happen to you anywhere if you're cool enough, anywhere can be the asshole of the world if you are.
by the way - been in four of those cities while the homeboys won the grey cup. most fun? easy, rider fans.
joe inglett does a bellyflop every time he crosses home. it's not even a slide, he flops onto the plate.
that's how gritty he is, reed johnson would just slide like a lazy asshole, inglett gets in there hard.
-Alex
Parkes, rippin' off the dead man.
I was able to snag sweet seats last night. Just behind the dark blues behind the home plate side of the twins dugout. An asshole father with two fucktard kids (one a ginger) was second to a shirt tossed from the dugout and picks a fight with the guy that got it and wrestles it away and puts it on his asschild. The kid wears the shirt the whole game from that point on even though it's dragging on the motherfuckin' ground. Meanwhile the tards are pining over getting a goddam ball the whole game, so I tell them "go out to shortstop, you can get one there" but they didn't leave and the father with the circle-swimming sperm had the nerve to give me a dirty look.
Despite the above, seeing Snider and Lind hitting the shit outta the ball was nice. Rolen's couple of singles were a nice touch too. Vernon's ball was hammered as was Snider's.
I went and saw JCVD after grabbin a couple beers in the distillery. There was a douche party for the TIFF in the Distillery. It was a struggle to stay awake during the movie, but the movie was entertaining. Not a great movie, but entertaining.
I nearly purchased a pickle on a stick at the Rogedome. I can't believe they still have that concession.
Oh yea, and I'm sure nobody gives a shit.
Also, I prefer the Manbearpig Griffin photo. That should be the standard.
Also, this hot streak must be doing wonders for The Intangibles.
I always care. I have to start stealing seats from now on.
Who or what are the Intangibles? I don't feel like doing my own research on this.
the intangibles are one of this site's best blogger bergkamp's fantasy teams
Sweet. Go Tangs!
Sorry Beau and, uh, whoever, about the beer. If only I'd known! Turns out heading to the game last night was a smarter decision than I'd thought, if only for the Snider Show and not for the bratty kids behind me.
I survived. The tears dried eventually.
Just to add to the mini wave discussion, I was at the Jays game in Yankee Stadium this past Sunday and the Yankee fans there absolutely had a wave going. And it was inclusive, too -- even the fabled Bleacher Creatures were taking part.
As an aside, I saw more Blue Jays jersies there than I've ever seen in the Rogers Centre. (Then again, there were more Yankees jersies just in the surrounding three rows than all the Jays jersies that have ever been sold.)
Jimmy Carr died?
And the TFC success is driven by MLSE hype, they are very good at it.
-anonymous brad fullmer fan
I know this comment is now buried, and I also know that I disagree with a lot of your comments, but this might be the dumbest thing you've ever said.
I've been wanting for a while to challenge the whole premise of this post. I don't make a lot of noise when I go to a game. I'll clap at two strikes and cheer on a good play, but most of the time I'm concentrating on the play. (Yes, the wave is the bane of my existence.) I hate this whole idea that because I don't act like a drunken jerk then I'm not a fan.
The big problem is that the Rogers Centre shuts down any fan spontaneity. Any time the fans start up cheers, the guy that's in charge of the noise, instead of letting it grow naturally, imposes some other cheer. I refuse to follow this kind of thing on general principle. The net thing is that it turns the fans into some kind of mass puppet, dampening any kind of really atmosphere.
It would help if time was spent between innings educating the fans on some finer point of the game rather than have recycle trucks chase each other.
@ Dave - Being a chick who can fill out a scorecard has done shit for me. Guys say they want it, but they really don't. They find it too intimidating when they discover I know as much as they do about the game. Because at that point, you can't denigrate me like you guys here seem to like to do to women.
"I know this comment is now buried, and I also know that I disagree with a lot of your comments, but this might be the dumbest thing you've ever said."
I know you enjoy going to the games, love the atmosphere, and blah blah blah, all that lame shit. But that's what the TFC is, it's a fucking hype show. People buy tickets because it's the popular thing to do right now...that's just the way Toronto is. In the US, the MLS is looked at as the piece of shit league it is, and it's only a matter of time for people to see it the same way here.
-anonymous brad fullmer fan
Where's MLSE's hype for the Marlies?
Yeah, TFC support will undoubtedly tail off a bit if they don't start winning, but you're way, way wrong. People do not buy tickets because it's the popular thing to do-- other way around. It's popular because the crowds are great and it's fun to go and watch, win or lose. Sorry. It's popular because the city was STARVED for high-level soccer (and if you watched them hold their own against Aston Villa last year, you'd know it's not a piece of shit league). It's popular because the stadium, though basic, is fucking fantastic-- you're close to the action, the atmosphere is great, the views of the pitch and of the city are great, and unlike Rogers, they actually seem to care about the fan experience. They don't treat you like you're prisoners whose sole purpose is to be subjected to ads.
And MLS, friend, is getting stronger and stronger, not the other way around. No, TFC's success is not based out of hype-- that's just what dumb jagoffs who have never been to a game and want to be dicks about it say (so I'm not surprised you're saying it, I guess). Walk down College or Dundas or St. Clair some Saturday afternoon when a Jays game is on and see how many bars are showing baseball and how many are showing soccer. Yeah, it's all Sporting Lisbon and Juventus, but there is a big, growing market for soccer in North America. It's real, it's not hype.
And REGARDLESS of how wrong you are about all that, you originally attributed the hype to the geniuses at MLSE, which was the part of your comment that was especially fucking ridiculous. They're not orchestrating this with "The Passion That Unites Us" bullshit. Yeah, they did a great job with the stadium and keeping the ad bullshit unobtrusive, but this success is all down to the thirst this city has for soccer. Are you kidding me? MLSE can't get anyone to watch the Marlies, they might have fucked up the Raptors if not for Wayne Embry trading Jalen Rose and a few people actually getting their heads out of their asses long enough to hire Colangelo, the Leafs are a gigantic fucking cash cow that are virtually impossible to screw up. No, they're not really good at hyping anything but condos.
Stoeten, it's both funny and sad that you actually believe all those things that you just wrote.
I remember when MLSE originally announced that they were getting an MLS team. Nobody gave a shit. In fact, I went around telling people the nws, and most of them didn't know what the MLS was, nor did they care.
I don't know what your experiences are, but most of these same people now go to a lot of games. And you know why? Because it's the fucking thing to do in Toronto right now. The hype surrounding this novelty is enormous. That's why they are selling tickets. There's just no way around that. It will die down eventually, just like every other shitty minor league team that's popular for a while does (remember the Toronto Rock? yeah, it's the same fucking thing). And yes, MLSE has simply done a perfect marketing job here, whether you want to admit it or not.
-anonymous brad fullmer fan
Oh, and the reason they can't get anybody to go to the Marlies is because that's perceived as a minor league team that doesn't matters. Torontonians do not like that feeling generally, they only like supporting a major league team.
At the moment, that sentiment simply doesn't exist concerning the TFC/MLS, like it does in the US (where it is treated like the shit league it actually is). But just give it time. People will realize it's basically just a farm league for the teams in Europe soon enough.
MLSE also never had a problem getting people to go to Raptors games, even when they were losing horribly. So I doubt they could ever fuck that up. The fan base is too large.
-anonymous brad fullmer fan
from above: "Unrelated subject, but is anyone else going to the JC autograph signing tomorrow? And what is the etiquette with these things?"
well if you're not there already, good fucking luck. i was at the tony fernandez signing but when i rolled in at 6:15pm (it was ending at 6:30) i was told by security there is no way mr fernandez would even make it until the end of the line.
yet in t true tony form, he insisted to his 'handlers' on finishing the last autograph signing which ended after 7:07 just as the anthems were being read.
i read during the game last night that joltin joe is doin a shift at the metro convention centre this weekend too for a GM promotion? u might have better luck there.
let us know how it turns out.
Anonymous Brad Fulmer fan:
Stoeten has done a good job of shooting down your posts, what with the MLSE-hype-machine hype-machine and why people show up for TFC, but I’ll try and fill in the gaps.
“I remember when MLSE originally announced that they were getting an MLS team. Nobody gave a shit. In fact, I went around telling people the nws, and most of them didn't know what the MLS was, nor did they care.”
Nobody gave a shit, except for the 14,000 people who signed up for season tickets and the additional 6,000 who secured their spot on the waiting list – all before TFC had kicked a ball in anger.
Sample size: it matters.
For the record, my experience prior to season tickets going on sale was the complete opposite, and this is coming from someone who, being a long-time follower of Canadian soccer, was extremely skeptical of whether Toronto’s historically elitist soccerphiles would get on board. Whether it was speaking to people around town or following discussions on the net, I found that the very people I’d figured to turn their noses up at TFC were the ones most enthusiastic.
Getting back to the season ticket figures, this is what the Bob McCowns of the world conveniently forget when they write TFC’s success off as a product of hype and fashion. This was never something that built up steam and slowly attracted attention. From day one, people were excited and eager to jump on board. It’s as Stoeten said: there has always been a strong following for the game in this city, and the yearning for a local product has always been there. As soon as a viable, respectable product was offered (TFC) the reaction was automatic. People have been waiting for this a long time, and it’s not likely to fade away any time soon.
“And yes, MLSE has simply done a perfect marketing job here, whether you want to admit it or not.”
Yes and no. TFC’s success is a product of the city’s demographics and its yearning for a legitimate local product. But MLSE’s contribution can’t be ignored. It’s not hype that did it. Rather, it was the decision on MLSE’s part to market to the right people: whereas teams like the Lynx and Blizzard were set on marketing to kids and youth groups, as well as a smattering of ethnic pandering, TFC realized that the money was with followers of the European game – people in the pubs, Setanta subscribers, etc. MLSE didn’t create the hype; the hype was already there. What they did do was market the team in a manner that allowed that hype to take hold.
“At the moment, that sentiment simply doesn't exist concerning the TFC/MLS, like it does in the US (where it is treated like the shit league it actually is). But just give it time. People will realize it's basically just a farm league for the teams in Europe soon enough.”
Actually, TFC fans already realize that. It’s part of why TFC has taken hold, and it’s another reason why MLSE was so successful in marketing the team. Whereas teams like the Blizzard were intent on placing all their marbles in the aging-Euro-star basket, under the misconception that Torontonians would reject anything that wasn’t elite European soccer, TFC marketed the MLS for what it was: a solid developmental league that provided exciting if not elite soccer, complete with young, local talent.
TFC fans don’t need the MLS to be “major league.” They get that on TV. It’s part of the package. On Saturday mornings fans can watch their Juventus/Man U/Benfica/Real Madrid, and in the afternoon they get their fix of live, local soccer. Each serves its purpose. People are secure in the notion that TFC is not elite soccer, but that’s OK, because it’s still a local team that they can get behind. And anyways, the talent is still good. There’s reward to seeing someone like Maurice Edu suit up for Rangers in the Old-Firm game, knowing that you saw him get his start at TFC. Just as it’s cool to see Canadian players ply their trade.
Look at the All-Star Game. Everywhere David Beckham goes, he’s the star – home or away. Yet when he came to Toronto, he played second fiddle to Jim Brennan, a marginal Canadian national team player who also happens to be the captain of TFC. Even as Beckham did his thing on the pitch, the crowd chanted for Brennan. It just goes to show that Toronto soccer fans have built a connection to the team and its players; it’s not just about getting drunk and being seen. The fact that these players may not be world class doesn’t matter; they’re Toronto’s players, and that’s all that matters.
MK Piatkowski,
Being intimidated by a girl because she knows a lot about something I like got old when I was like 15. I'd rather be challenged by a girl in conversation then have to talk about how her skank friend Jenny hooked up with the guy from Girl Talk.
Besides, if I want to make a girl feel bad about herself I'll just talk about literature.
I don't know man. Wasn't it like 5000 of those season tickets were sold within a week or two of when it was announced that David Beckham would be coming to play with L.A. ?
What Stoeten and Peter Ing are saying is exactly what everyone said about the Rock. "There's a passion in the area for it", "fans love the connection to the local players" etc...Pretty much everyything you guys are saying you could replace TFC with Rock. Nowadays if you want to go to a Rock game all you have to do is go to a sportsbar on front St on game night and they're giving tickets away. Time will tell I guess, but I know too many TFC "fans" who never gave a crap about soccer before, and all of a sudden love going to games for the "atmosphere" and 'the fun'. These aren't lifetime soccer fans.
But hey, these are just the people I know. Maybe there's a base I'm not aware of, even though history says otherwise,but I'll remain skeptical. If they win, of course, then all bets are off.
They definitely got a bump from the Beckham announcement, although I don’t think it was as high as 5000.
But again, as the All-Star Game experience shows, the TFC phenomenon goes beyond Beckham. It’s not as if tickets are flooding the marketplace for non-Beckham games. The place is packed on a weekly basis.
I don’t know much about The Rock, but I find it unlikely that there’d be many similarities. The market for Lacrosse isn’t anywhere near what it is for Soccer. I mean, look at the number of soccer jerseys you see around town, and the way this city reacts to the World Cup and European championships. An argument can be made that after Hockey, Soccer is the #2 sport amongst Torontonians. And that’s as a spectator sport, not hokey youth participation sport. Any organization that was to concentrate that following on one local product had an excuse to print money. It just so happened MLSE was the first to capitalize on it.
I think The Rock phenomenon had more to do with the experience than TFC ever have. Even in the Rock’s heyday, I don’t recall seeing Rock merchandise around town. TFC gear, on the other hand, I see on a daily basis. Heck, I see it more than Argos gear and almost as much as Raptors stuff. The team seems to have instilled itself as a part of Toronto’s sports fabric, rather than just as a peripheral form of entertainment.
TFC took a following of 3,000 to Columbus, Ohio for the opener this year. This was organized purely by the fans; MLSE had nothing to do with it. Fans don’t travel that far in those numbers unless they truly care. Could you ever imagine the Rock attracting that type of a following, or any away following at all? I think the two are entirely different beasts altogether.
I’m sure there are people who are attracted to the atmosphere, but then again, why is that a bad thing. Maybe they’ll get bored of it, or maybe by attending the games they’ll develop a deeper interest in the club and become long-term fans. That’s how it worked with me and the Jays. I was always a baseball fan, but it wasn’t until the Season Pass was introduced and attending Jays games became a daily ritual that I really developed a passion for the team.
I agree with Stoeten. I don’t think TFC’s current success is sustainable. But I don’t think it’s going to bottom out, either. I think the club has a solid core of support and that, just as with any other team, with winning seasons and losing seasons the support will ebb and flow. But on the whole, I think attendance will stay respectable, to the point where TFC will continue to comfortably be the #5 team in the city.
Besides, if I want to make a girl feel bad about herself I'll just talk about literature.
That wouldn't work on me. I majored in English and now run a theatre company. :)
Oh, and you'd be surprised how many of us in the theatre community are Jays fans.
That wouldn't work on me. I majored in English and now run a theatre company.
That's just as hot as being able to fill out a boxscore. Well played.
Oh, and you'd be surprised how many of us in the theatre community are Jays fans.
Nah, the Arts and baseball go hand in hand. It makes plenty of sense.
I'm talking about right when they made the announcement. Before the hype-show in the year that followed and the Beckham announcement. Nobody outside of a few extreme, hardcore soccer fans actually cared about the development that was an expansion coming to Toronto. However, it quickly became the thing to do in Toronto, and I highly doubt it will stay as popular as long as the two of you say it will.
-anonymous brad fullmer fan
I'm talking about right when they made the announcement. Before the hype-show in the year that followed and the Beckham announcement. Nobody outside of a few extreme, hardcore soccer fans actually cared about the development that was an expansion coming to Toronto. However, it quickly became the thing to do in Toronto, and I highly doubt it will stay as popular as long as the two of you say it will.
-anonymous brad fullmer fan
No more to do in Toronto than any other city?
Right.
Like the Film Fest, the Jazz Fest, NXNE, MLB, NHL, NBA, MLSE, multiple theatre productions, ...
Yeah, you can get those in the Peg any night of the week. (Not that I've got anything against the Peg, but gimme a break.)
Oh, and Stoeten and yes im peter ing are dead right about TFC. It ain't hype or fad, folks. It's people who love soccer in Toronto. Sorry to burst your WASP bubble. There's more Italians in Toronto than in just about any other city outside of Italy, just FYI. And Portuguese, and South Americans, and ...
it's hype.
No, the Blue Jays getting 50k per game was hype. To think otherwise is a WASP fantasy.
My favourite memories of going to a Jays game over the years are all about Exhibition Stadium, a few games at the Dome and that turned me off of going to baseball in Toronto forever again. Loved the Ex despite it being not the perfect baseball stadium, it had character.
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