No Manny, Says JP
Here's what Ricciardi told Jayson Stark of ESPN:
"We won't be involved with Manny. That keeps coming up, but it's not true. I think one reason is that Manny has always liked it in Toronto. He's hit more home runs here than anybody. And he likes the city, because he can fly under the radar here. So he may be asking his agent to try to find a way to put him here. He's a great hitter, so it's tempting. But being tempted and being realistic are two separate things."
I'm going to hold out hope that Rogers comes to their senses and opens the purse strings-- seriously, Rogers, fucking do it! Do you not see what JP is saying here!?!?-- but, uh... yeah, this doesn't sound good. Plus, this comment definitely doesn't get my bullshit meter running like some of the other stuff JP has said over the last few days. (Hmmm. Maybe it's because he said it to an American writer and not the local media...)
What's frustrating about this, though, is... what's changed? A month ago JP said that Manny was "on our radar", but now this is wholly unrealistic? It almost makes me think that there might be credence to the talk of the Jays cutting payroll, but I still don't buy that, and I'm not going to go through the reasons why for a third day in a row. Rather, why don't I put this naively optimistic thought out there: what if JP has been saying these things in the hope that Manny and Boras will lower their price to a place where maybe it is realistic for the Jays.
I know that sounds like full-on crazy talk, and it probably is, but do you honestly think, all things being equal, Manny would prefer to destroy the NL West, when he could get a ton of games against Boston-- perhaps the biggest regular-season spectacle baseball has seen in years?-- and a whole lot more against the Yankees and the Rays? Call me an idiot, but I honestly do think Manny could be pushing to come here.
And fuck... I hate to keep sounding like a broken record on this, but Manny would, and I don't think this is hyperbole, instantly invigorate this market. It would be a complete fucking 180 degree difference from what is going to happen if the Jays simply stay the course and schlep through another season of Jamie Campbell mediocrity. (Not quite sure what that means, but let's go with it. Also, that one might be hyperbole.)
Honestly, it's fucking pathetic-- pathetic-- that the only thing genuinely separating Manny and the Jays might actually be money. Money that the Jays' parent company actually has in ridiculous fucking abundance. Honestly. Pathetic.
And the more I think about it, the more pissed off I get. How can they actually fucking pass up this opportunity? Will I ever be able to watch this team again while under this ownership if they do? Right now, I can't even say.
Yeah, I know Rogers can't make bad decisions for its business just because they happen to own a baseball team that could really use them not being tight-fisted shit-heads right now, but for crying out loud... it wouldn't even take such a gigantic increase from where their budget is now to make it happen, and if a Manny contract didn't pay for itself, it would come damn near close. Where is the vision, Rogers, you goddamned fucking idiots? (Note the plural-- I mean the company, not Uncle Ted himself. Get well soon, Uncle Ted. I honestly hope to have you back as the cheap, shitty owner of this baseball team in no time-- and despite the somewhat-warranted dig (there have been payroll increases, and that whole Wells deal, so... OK, maybe I'm a little bit out of line), I do mean that without a hint of sarcasm, because yes, I understand that this team might not even be here if not for you.)
But no, the Jays are again a corporate afterthought, their fans are nothing but prisoners in an ad salesman's wet dream, and Rogers taking a pass here is just honestly fucking pathetic...
(Especially if, you know, we forget for a moment that in 2011 they'd theoretically have $60M in payroll committed to four players, none of whom would be named Halladay ($20M for Manny, $23M for Vernon, $12M for Rios, and $5M for Hill).)
Hat tip, of course, to MLB Trade Rumors.
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78 comments:
I consider JP's comments here a very bad sign. However, the fact that he thinks that Manny wants to come here and is actively campaigning that way could be a good sign. I will remain hopeful until Manny signs somewhere else, because for all the rumours about what Manny wants, nobody has really said definitively what everybody will offer him (other than the Dodgers). Maybe the astronomical numbers will fall a little and JP can clear some room. I can dream, right?
It's official, Ted Rogers hates the Blue Jays.
That. Fucking. Sucks.
I'm trying not to, but I'm definitely getting the sense that JP wants to do all kinds of crazy shit, but word from the top has come down and that word is "nospendingmoneytoimprovetheteamfindawaytogetthingsdoneinternally."
fuck jp ratchardi.
BAHAHAHAHAHAH story of the kroeg head
I've added a few more words.
The "JP trying to lowball Boras" theory isn't realistic. Everyone knows Scott Boras is an evil douche bag, why would he fall for that. No, Boras has his price and Ted Rogers will have to pay it if he has any affection for the Blue Jays whatsoever. I swear, if there were enough of us diehard Jays fans, I would suggest publicly protesting or boycotting the team if they stand pat. But as it is, there are like 12 die hard fans so that won't work.
Still trying to get this right...
It makes too much sense to bring him here. Even if Manny is the only player they bring in this team might not be that much better this year (the pitching will hurt and maybe even surprise!?), but fuck look out in 2010 if everyone is back healthy.
They don't have to raise payroll by much (subract 15M for Burnett add 20M for Manny and its a 5M difference) Im sure Rogers could afford it. Fuck im pissed off now too.
You know, this is probably fucking killing Ricciardi as much as it's killing us, so I don't see the point in shitting on HIM over this (@ arj).
Can you fucking imagine JP's boner knowing that Manny is a free agent and WANTS to come to Toronto? He was probably thinking along the exact same lines - AJ's money will free up a good chunk for Manny, Rogers will greenlight a slight increase for a player the caliber of Manny, and BAM!....nice little offseason.
Instead, it seeeeeeems that Rogers is saying "not only will we NOT greenlight a slight increase, but the only AJ re-up offer we'll sign off on is a sure-to-be-rejected lowballer.
Fuck. I hate it when I go into negative depressing conspiracy mode.
For the JP haters, there is a light at the end of the tunnel for you. The odds of JP exercising his "if Godfey goes" opt-out is probably increasing exponentially by the day.
Maybe Manny hasn't actively campaigned to come here, and this was an sneaky sales pitch?
*a
Come on dudes. The truth is we have no idea what the plan at Blue Jays or Rogers headquarters is. Yesterday, everyone was singing the JP bullshits the media tune, and then today you head in the direct opposite direction with his comments about Manny.
Honestly, I can't see how they're any different at all.
Simmer down.
I nominate this pic:
http://i146.photobucket.com/albums/r259/fidolatry/tedrogers_morans.jpg
to be in the upcoming post shitting on Rogers. It's priceless. I would even make it part of the new logo.
I love Google image search.
The difference as I see it, Parkes, is there has been a DRAMATIC change in tone and language from JP, almost overnight, where all he'll talk about is the shit economy, how the Jays won't be in on any free agents but instead will have to look at trades (ie: not adding salary), and now a fairly unequivocal "no" on pursuing Manny.
The fact that it happened almost overnight, to me, indicates a change in "direction" (yeah, right - "direction") from ownership.
I hope to all fuck that I'm wrong, of course, but the change in tone has been dramatic.
If only they'd spelled morons correctly. Or is he supposed to be yelling at Ian Moran's family?
My point is that yesterday everyone was saying that those comments are bullshit, and now they're all tsk tsking Rogers for it.
This is all just speculation, and we won't know anything until Manny signs elsewhere, Burnett schedules a press conference at the new Yankee stadium and Ricciardi trades Halladay to the Dodgers for four prospects and Russel Martin.
Or Guy Paul Moran's family if you prefer.
I agree with Ack here. My read on JP's quotes is that he got word from the big dicks a week ago that there won't be a payroll increase. So then JP went on a excuse binge to both lower fan expectations and, in a sneaky way, to also put on a sad puppy face as well. Hopefully it works. It probably won't.
Double nested brackets!
This comment doesn't really change much in my opinion. If I'm understanding this correctly, JP's referring specifically to Manny and Manny only here. And we all pretty much knew all along the Jays were never going to have what it would take to bring Manny here. Because that would make too much sense. I still think all of the other bullshit JP's been spewing about standing pat was just his way of managing expectations in case he isn't able to pull the trigger on anything substantial. So I hope I'm right in thinking JP will still do something this offseason, be it Milton or Giambi or Penny or Sheets or trades that might bring in more payroll.
Agreed.
What's with everybody's name getting proper capitalization today?
What makes more sense
1. JP is lowering expectations because Rogers won't give him a payroll increase to go after Manny, Lowe, etc., but also indirectly telling Rogers that he wants the money.
OR
2. There has been no word from Rogers about payroll changes and JP is just making up bullshit excuse after bullshit excuse simply because he has self esteem issues and is afraid he won't be able to make this team better.
I guess I'll properly capitalize for this comment too.
If Ratchardi is bitching about the state of the economy and how Unky Ted figures now is the best time to pinch pennies, then why haven't ticket prices (and more importantly, beer prices) at the Skydome been slashed? Fuck. Fucking Jays. Another wasted season coming right up!
Honestly. MANNY IS NEVER COMING HERE. There will be no payroll increase and sponsors are going overboard. I work for shoppers and heard that they are dropping the Jays. SO the dollar is creeping lower by the hour, shoppers, GM corp money gone,with the luck of Jays fans Doc will be next, and no gm will be stupid enough to take vernon shitastic deal off their hands .
Too BAD because this team had a window of opportunity to compete in 2006, 2007, and 2008. Each year had one of Bos or NY hitting the crapper somehow, but the Jays were unable to squeak in. Now instead of everything having to go perfect for them to get into the playoffs, you get the sense that they would need to go 162-0 and they would somehow lose a tie breaker to the Red Dicks. At least Toronto still has a team, so that is a positive.
I don't think it's unreasonable to think that Manny could lead to an extra 5,000 tickets sold per game, both because he's a show in himself and the team would be a contender and seemingly draws well when the games are of importance. That means Manny would bring around 400,000 more people to the stadium. At an average ticket price of $25, that's 10m right there. When you consider that those extra 400,000 people buy a shit load more of concessions too, I really think Manny would pay for himself, or damn near close to it. This of course doesn't even include the possibility of playoffs in which the Jays would rake in even more dough, even if it's only 2 games of an ALDS.
Reality is that JP is probably going to just mull around for the next 6 weeks, dropping leverage quotes wherever he sees fit. However, come January, there's probably going to be quite a few veteran bargains out there looking for jobs, and I think that's when we will see Ricciardi start to add on the necessary pieces he can afford for the team. Regardless of what he says, he's signing a bat that can DH effectively (at least from one side of the plate) and a veteran SP that has proven he can eat up innings.
Couldn't someone make the argument that sponsors dropping off means it would make MORE sense to make a splash like this?
No... seriously, could someone do that? I won't, but I'm sure someone can step up to the plate here.
don't forget though, that money that comes in is all in CANADIAN funds. Everything that the Jays pay out is in AMERICAN funds. So Manny wouldn't necessarily pay for himself.
Hmmm. Maybe they're angling for another round of equalization payments.
I wonder if Cito Gaston went public and said he wanted the roster upgraded that it would put some heat on ol' Teddy boy.
He's been conspicuously silent through all this.
I love how J.P. talks like trades don't cost money--he's expected to upgrade positions by trading either lefty relievers or prospects for...
...what?
Any upgrades will be veteran players since if a team has a young stud with time until arbitration/free agency he simply will not be available.
If he thinks trades won't impact payroll then he's looking to trade for some awfully suckilicious players.
Best Regards
John
JB, check out Southpaw for some non-reliever/prospect trade ideas.
Nine posts in two days.
Jesus H., are you boys tweaking or what?
tao u suck
Tao, we're just trying to limit the negative impact of that fucking un-centred banner ad with content. I don't think it's working.
Seriously guys, Adblock Plus
Fuck!
This post is 100% right.
So - one of the best players in baseball in the last two decades actually potentially WANTS to come to Toronto, unlike most douchebag athletes and we're turning him away?!?!
Why the fuck why!??!
Rogers makes a billion dollars a year, and they don't want to raise to payroll by 10 million a year to get an iconic, hall of fame hitter?? And the fact that he actually wants to come here (probably) makes it even worse!
Arrrghhhhhhh!!!
I haven't been this frustrated with the team in a long time..fuck!
Do we still get credit for views if you're using that?
mlbtraderumors.com is saying that the Yankees are looking to offer Burnett something like 60 mil over 4 years. That's barely more than the Jays offer, and not even close to the 5 years 80 million that was rumored..
Maybe the Jays could be more competitive on the Burnett bidding than previously thought. Even though all of the sudden it looks like they're not spending any fucking money.
Maybe Uncle Ted really is increasing payroll and J.P.'s just foreshadowing how he's going to embezzle $20M of it.
Right after MLBtraderumors says that anon 5:12, they say "BUT THAT'S NOT SUFFICIENT FOR EITHER PITCHER"
Literally right after. Not even a period.
I have $20,294 that I'd put towards signing Manny. Honestly, make it happen and I'll sign the cheque.
I've been saying it for years. The problem with this team has never been JP, it's been with ownership. They are capable of spending so much more money and producing a winning team, but they actually choose not to. They just aren't THAT committed to winning. They only do enough to make us think we might have a chance, allowing them to make their profits off the team.
It sucks, but that's the Blue Jays. I'm not going to stop being a fan because of it.
Although, I don't understand the point of having a 80-90M payroll. Either get rid of all the contracts and start over, or actually try to win by spending their money. The Blue Jays are doing neither. It's infuriating.
Call me an idiot, but I honestly do think Manny could be pushing to come here.
you're an idiot
Right. That wasn't my point though.
I'm just surprised that the Yankees offer was even close to the Jays - even if neither offer is going to be good enough.
I'm surprised they didn't start off with something huge like they did with Sabathia.
what's wrong with going after him even if they can't afford him? why this big announcement? Make Manny an offer...so he says no, so what? can't these people multi-task?
fuck these people. I've gone insane, it must be the off centre nickelback ad.
http://www.rollingstone.com/reviews/album/24024304/review/24196452/dark_horse?source=album_reviews_rssfeed
So apparently I didn't come up with the term dickelback
Call me an idiot, but I honestly do think Manny could be pushing to come here.
you're an idiot
Thank you! Finally!
"Although, I don't understand the point of having a 80-90M payroll."
I'd rather watch what a $90m team did this year than what a $50m dollar team could accomplish in the AL East.
If you want to spend 10 years in 60 win hell, go cheer for the Orioles.
The Orioles were winning more recently than the Blue Jays (late 90s). And I expect them to move forward more quickly, because they seem willing to spend money when needed.
The problem with the strategy of "don't waste money on free agents when you can get things cheaper through trades" is that the Jays do not have any trade-able talent.
Clarification: not enough tradeable talent to get anything good enough to make them compete this year.
When Manny Ramirez wants to come play for your Canadian baseball team in Toronto on artificial turf in front of retarded fans, you fucking do it.
God knows what ridiculous lengths they have to go through normally to get players to come here. Shit.
^^
lol
FUUUUUUUCK the Jays released Les Walrond. FUUUUUCK JP and Rogers.
Haha.
I love how the Jays offseason moves so far have been picking up a few shitty minor league players, and then releasing them about a month later.
Fuck the Jays!
simmer the fuck down
Fuck off Parkes, brought to you by Chad and the cock brigade.
I appreciate all the updates in the past few days guys. Apparently Chad Kroeger does bring good things!
Since things are getting slow around here, I present to you this great (albeit demented) piece of literature
http://www.tard-blog.com/
By 2011, the Jays will have holes at short, first and third. LInd or Snider can move to first, but what aboot third or short? That is the problem with signing Manny is that too much money will be committed to too few players. Let's say Halladay stays(which is highly doubtful, I think he walks or is traded next year) he will get at least 22 mill a year. Manny wants minimum 25 mill, so the Jays will have 87 million dollar payroll with little financial flexibility?
BUt the flip side is that Manny would bring fannies into the seats and revenue would go up. If the Jays make it into the playoffs for a couple of years that would be worth the investment no doubt. Ted should get it done!
if the jays don't spend I'm out - I can't take it anymore. Fuck, I love/hate the blue jays
i wanna punch unckie ted right in his 300 year old face. fuck. he should be buying us championships so that we in turn buy his crappy products. fuck. instead we'll keep buying his shit and have our money spent on some fucking nfl bullshit. fuck. who in the fuck cares about buffalo? fuck. fucking jays. the fucking winter of my discontent has already started and its not even december yet. cant wait til my ticket weasel from the jays calls up askin for me to renew my flex packs. fuck.
Parkes: If only they'd spelled morons correctly. Or is he supposed to be yelling at Ian Moran's family?
it's an internet meme based on this actual picture:
http://www.neatorama.com/images/2006-02/get-a-brain-morans.jpg
I wonder how many fans who threaten to stop paying attention to the team because of ownership/management ever actually follow through. Somewhere around zero, I'm guessing.
i'm not going to stop paying attention.. fuck.. what else would i do during the summer.. im just going to stop buying tickets and weasel free tix into the vip section.
It would be hard for me to give less of a shit about the Jays than I did this year. They're trying to get me there, though.
Let's not let J.P totally off the hook. Yes, we need a committed owner willing to spend the dough but let's not forget how much money J.P has wasted on people like Frank Thomas, Corey Koskie, Eric Hinske, etc. No wonder Rogers is hesitant to open the keys to the vault.
trade v-dub for phil hughes....sign manny.....yanks don't care about Wells' contract, only about his production from CF
Yeah, that's what we need to win a championship, an unproven, overrated prospect who's done less in his career than Jesse Litsch.
Quit being so depressing. The Jays have to do something, and we all knew Manny was a huge long-shot. There are a lot of over good pieces this year that we might get in on.
In a weird way I actually would rather be an Orioles fan. Angelos is a total asshole, but at least he cares at least a little bit about the team on the field. Sure, he still cares more about his wallet than anything else, but so do all these assholes. At least the O's are slightly more than an advertising opportunity to him.
phil hughes? who the hell? read some terrible rumour that the jays were interested in kalile greene.. why? they got russ adams in the minors somewhere.. if they want a shit shortstop, they just need to call him up
The Jays would absolutely never have relocated with or without Rogers, Stoeten. Please don't contribute to this myth.
Oh shit, I guess you're right. You really made some compelling arguments there. I never looked at it that way.
Please contribute to debunking this myth.
Imagine... a world in which the drunk-jaysnation got the surprise of a lifetime:
Burnett goes to NY and gets injured in spring training
Manny signs for 2 years $50mil, hits 45 HR
Wells hits 32 HR, drives in 120 and wins a gold glove
Halladay wins 22 games and a cy-young
McGowan comes off the DL in May and posts an 18-8 record with a 3.22 era
Alex Rios hits 60 doubles, 25 HR and steals 40 bases
Adam lind bats .313 and hits 28 HR
Travis Snyder hits 18 HR in 200 at bats off the bench
Rod Barajas hitS 20 HR and 78 rbi
Overbay hits .280 with 88 rbi and 17 HR
Aaron hill hits .300 with 15 HR and 45 doubles
Rolen wins a gold glove, hits 15 HR and 45 doubles
Johnny Mac and Scutaro share SS, combing for a .999 fielding average, 12 Hr and 55 rbi
Purcey goes 10-11 with an era of
4.81
Litch goes 11-11 with an era of
4.55
Cecil goes 8-11 with an era of 5.12
Tallet, as a starter, goes 8-8 with an era of 4.66
Carleson wins 8 games and posts a 3.11 era
BJ saves 40 games
Downs posts a 1.11 era
Jays win the wild card...
HOW MUCH MORE MONEY WOULD THAT MAKE ROGERS CORP.?
COULD IT HAPPEN?
WHY NOT?
I think I may be spending more time watching redtube next season. Fuck you fucking fuckers.
Anon 5:34, if all that happens and we still only win the wild card we're probably fucked in the playoffs by whoever wins the AL East above us anyways.
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