Friday, December 12, 2008

The Honeymoon Is Over

Well, that was fast. As Parkes has already pointed out, after a few days of nailing it in the desert heat-- and based on his exploits at past Winter Meetings, that could be taken literally-- this morning Griffin threw a mug full of frozen piss in our faces. Part of me hopes it's the jet lag, but I know it's not. . . I know it's not. . .

Trading Halladay only fair, the title says, and... ugh, in it he makes a poorly thought-out case for trading the Jays' ace.

Now Parkes has covered the key aspect of what makes this idea fucking ridiculous, but there are still several other pieces of his argument that I think I can get irate about. In fact, there's one little thing about this turd that's particularly shitting in my craw: the timing.

Like... for fuck sakes, was Griff not saying two fucking days ago that the Jays should be waiting until January, when desperation sets in for guys who have yet to be signed, and throwing what little cash they have at some veteran arms? Isn't the market kind of playing out exactly that way? Wouldn't it be a little fucking stupid to conclude, today, that the '09 Jays are in entirely place and they're absolutely going to fucking suck for the next two years?

Look, I have to try hard not to be too delusional about how competitive I think the Jays can be next year, but it's just seriously fucked up to be writing them off at this point. I mean, I guess this is completely typical Griffin, trying to be yin douche to JP Ricciardi's yang bag, but let's just hold on a fucking second here. I know a lot has to go right, and I know that in most years even less has had to go right, and it never fucking does, but seriously. . . Wells and Rios can be better, Rolen and Overbay can definitely be better, full seasons of Hill, Snider and Lind will make a difference, Janssen can be very effective if he's healthy, McGowan will still get a bunch of starts once he's back, Cecil will likely show up at some point, yeah, Purcey, Romero and Richmond are underwhelming, but still OK-ish and will have a great defence behind them, Clement could... well, alright, let's not go nuts, but holy fucking seriously fucking seriously. Find an OK bat and another arm on the cheap and how bad does it really look???

I understand that seven years (er... fifteen?) of finding shit at the bottom of the glass is going to make people pessimistic, but if you look at it as half full, it's just really not that fucking bad, people. Certainly not "you owe it to Halladay to get him out of this mess" bad-- that's just fucking retarded on a number of levels.

And for fuck sakes, who was definitely going to dominate the AL Central this time last year? The Tigers (74-88) with maybe an outside shot for the Indians (81-81). Once they nabbed Santana, who was possibly going to beat the Mets in the NL East? Which teams were going to dominate the AL East as usual? How bad were the Marlins (84-77) going to be? How good were the Mariners (61-101) going to be?

Thats' why they play the games. . .

And Another Thing (Or two. Or three)

Wait a second, so AJ now "abused the Jays with an opt-out clause even though they took him off the scrap heap and overpaid." Seriously? Fuck off. It would be wonderful if the world were as black and white as the beer-goggles Griff sees it through, but holy shit this is some serious shit-smelling revisionist history right here. Unless "scrap heap" means the heap where you find guys who five or six teams are prepared to give $40M to.

And isn't it really fucking "classy" now to piss and moan about overpaying and relenting to the opt-out-- you know, like the one those fucktards with the Yankees agreed to on Sabathia-- when the pissing and the moaning would have obviously been twice as fierce if the Jays hadn't addressed their need for a number-two pitcher in '06, or if they'd just gone with some shitbag. I mean, can we stop acting like this was Carlos fucking Silva.

Oh, and Griffin is particularly upset about the lack of communication between JP and Doc. "We'll see him in spring training and any questions he's got we'll answer," Ricciardi shrugged. "I don't think we're going backwards. We've still got a good club. We've got a good club going forward."

Because, uh... the lame duck GM blowing smoke up his ass is, I'm sure, exactly what Roy needs to feel comfortable about the situation he's in.

Lastly, holy fuck that smoking poll the Star has got running really validates everything I think about the people who read Griffin for any reason other than to shit on him, and basically, well,... about two-thirds of Jays fans. And holy shit, the comments! They actually rival the article itself-- it's fucking draining to even attempt to get through that much fucking stupidity on one page. Fucking Christ...

111 rational and reasonable comments:

arj said...

trade roy.. for a dozen straight ws championships.. otherwise fuck off. i'd be happy to watch roy pitch every 5th day even if everyone around him sucks.

arj said...

maybe the booze in vegas is just better than t.o... is there any logical explanation as to how grif went from writing analytically to just spouting shit?

Stoeten said...

he wrote this before vegas?

Donny Ruth said...

With the pitching levelling back out this year and taking a turn to the less-than-average side, and the offense just HAS to produce more this year, I think we'll see a Jays team that is about as successful as last year's team. Who knows though, the lineup we have is capable of blowing away the competition regardless of how shaky our starting pitching is. Our bullpen is still rock solid barring any relievers being moved to the rotation (tallet, downs).

I agree that people are waving the white flag way too early here.

We do need one more starter at least though. No, Matt Clement doesn't count.

Lloyd the Barber said...

Arj I could kiss you

Thom said...

Too many if's with this team.

Christopher said...

//trade roy.. for a dozen straight ws championships.. otherwise fuck off. i'd be happy to watch roy pitch every 5th day even if everyone around him sucks.//

hey dipshit the point of the article is is that situation fair to Roy? Rich says no and so do I.
You might enjoy watching Roy pitch every 5 days for a team that sucks bags but I would guess he doesn't like being known as the best pitcher never to throw in the post-season.

Joe said...

Thanks, Stoeten. I needed this.

Stoeten said...

Well, at least they're ifs and not complete black holes. Though maybe the back end of the rotation qualifies as one. . .

arj said...

:O heyzeus.

arj said...

christopher are you fuckin kidding? 14 mil a year aint fair? being loved more than the second coming of christ by jays fans aint enough? he's under contract fuck face.. i'd rather see roy pitch here for another 2 years, and if he wants to go somewhere else, that's fine. but.. i'd rather not turn this team into the expos by giving away our best, just for 'potential'

John Brattain said...

In fairness to Griff (and this may be the first time I've defended him), this column reads like frustration and he's projecting his frustration on the Doc.

I mean, c'mon...who doesn't love Halladay and want to see him ram the ball down some hapless NL lineup in the World Series? As Jays' fans we feel sorry for ourselves and the Doc (I least I do...especially after the Yankees were making one mind-blowing offer after another in Vegas) knowing that '09 isn't looking really exciting at the moment.

I agree with Andrew that let's play the games and not toss in the towel before pitchers and catchers report but geez yeah, if the Jays aren't gonna even pretend they're trying next year then let Halladay get his shot at a ring.

Obviously, I want Doc to stay and trading him is idiotic since trading ace pitchers doesn't get the haul we think it should and as stated, a lot can happen next year. Unlike some here, I do think Purcey will give us close to 200 league average or better innings, that Litsch is gonna be one of these guys that defies projections and expectations and simply logs quality inning after quality inning and somebody from the Cecil/Romeros/Richmond will be a pleasant surprise.

You think I'm suffering from chiropteran digestive waste psychosis? This is different from yesterday’s opinion of me how precisely?

The article just sounded to me like a guy suffering from post-Christmas (Winter Meetings) let-down…he was hoping for a surprise and it didn’t materialize and now he’s venting. He deserves a lot of criticism for his work over the years but I’m gonna give him a mulligan on this one--we all need to blow of steam from time to time and I’m guessing that is all that is happening here.

All best are off if he did write this before Vegas.

Best Regards

John

Andy Mc said...

Bravo, Stoeten!

We'll all see how this team does with Cito at the helm.

hugo said...

wait, wasn't the A.J. deal a great deal for the Jays? We got a very good pitcher for 3 years where he was, for the most part, pretty healthy, in his prime for $10 million a year. The Yankees are about to pay him upwards of $90 million for 5 years in his mid and late 30s. JP got a very good starter for the price that immediately thereafter became the going market price for even very crappy starting pitchers. We're smart.

Anonymous said...

Dudes, even the Jays website says looking toward 2010.

I'm all about being optomistic, but the front office is already mailing it in.

Sold out as fans.

Plus, stop defending JP, he needs to go away. Besides, he's a Masshole.

Thom said...

aw god damn it, someone is using my name trying to be a jackass. Is Griff targetting the DJF readers/thinkers one by one?

Thom said...

bam

Beau said...

I'm looking forward to the fridge full of lakeport I have at home. Nothing like raking in a bonus and still buying cheap beer.

Go Jays Go?

Thom said...

fucking LCBO has strongbow at 2.95...thank makes me just angry. Assholes, albeit i'm gonnna hit up that corona for 36.55 deal didn't know they had come so much lower than heiny...they used to both be like 44

Stoeten said...

The Beer of Summer really cut into Corona's market, I bet. I drank that shit a little too much this year. . .

Thom said...

i guess those adverts for brava did work. now they're at like what..30? so wait you drank a lot of brava or corona?

Thom said...

some company better come along with the cheap rippoff of heiny soon...46$ is a bit much for my cheap ass

arj said...

make the roadtrip to costo in montreal.. deal with some heiny and come back with $27 2-4s of heine

Stoeten said...

Dudes, even the Jays website says looking toward 2010.

I'm all about being optomistic, but the front office is already mailing it in.

Sold out as fans.

Plus, stop defending JP, he needs to go away. Besides, he's a Masshole.


They're not mailing it in, they're acknowledging reality that they're better off positioning themselves for 2010 than 2009 because of the question marks with the rotation. But that doesn't mean that they can't do anything this year-- and it certainly doesn't mean that they're done this year. I understand being disappointed with the state of the team, and with Rogers' unwillingness to keep throwing money JP's way, but no, nobody has been "sold out as fans".

Speaking of JP, I'd like to see a new GM myself, but we're not going to rip JP just because we want him gone. If we think he's does something smart, we'll say so, if he does something dumb, we'll say so. Though I think we do end up defending him sometimes because the people who attack him do such a terrible job. I've said a bunch of times, I'm sure somebody could string together an argument about why he needs to go, but I never see it-- I just always see stupid bullshit about not having a plan, not living in Toronto, not drafting Tulowitzki or Kazmir, etc. That's a bit of an exaggeration, but I find it's a whole lot easier to defend him than to shit on him, if you're being honest and logical.

Stoeten said...

Brava-- the beer of summer! Is it up to $30? It was $26, I thought.

Heineken is quality, but I never buy it-- just too expensive, and I find there are others I like as much or better for cheaper. If I'm supporting the fatherland, it's usually Grolsh. Big into the PBR at the moment. Dirt cheap and tasty.

Lloyd the Barber said...

PBR? I got a case of that in my Hipster Starter Kit, along with a plaid button up, Fleet Foxes record, and 2 grams of cocaine.

Amsterdam Blond, straight from the brewery. $29 bucks for 25 bottles, open until 11. Tough to beat.

Anonymous said...

Send JP back to Bwaaahstyn !

Ian H. said...

Thom, I think they had Strongbow on sale for 2.75 back in the summer. Unfortunately, it's back up again - I'll drink it regardless.

Stoeten said...

Holy fuck, Amsterdam Blond smells like moldy vagina, though. I understand the hipster stigma of PBR, but fuck it, it's still tasty and cheap-- and the 12s of cans have a nifty handle that fits over my handle-bars (even though it sucks shit).

That starter kit sounds pretty good, though, minus the shirt and record.

Jordan Bwaaahstyn?

Stoeten said...

Bavaria is key, too. 6 tallboys-- full 500ml-- for $11.20 at my local LCBO.

Should I assume our American friends here are somewhat appalled at how fucking ripped off we get on booze up here?

Joe said...

Band of Horses > Fleet Foxes.

Joe said...

50 > PBR

Alex said...

PC White is great, almost as good as hoegaarden and like half the price

Thom said...

yea it's ridiculously cheap down there...the beer flows like wine!...er...cheap wine?

Thom said...

i've wanted to try the PC stuff (the low carb myself) for a while

Ian H. said...

Is AB only available in Toronto? Hook a brutha up!

Stoeten said...

No offense, but I have never understood, nor will I ever understand, why the hipster set loves pussy-whipped bands like that so much. They can both fuck off if you ask me-- which you didn't. It just sounds like embarrassing twee MOR bullshit to these ears. Fleet Foxes might as well be fucking CSNY-- and that's unlistenable horseshit, FYI.

Stoeten said...

Ian... I don't think *just* Toronto, but I don't know if it has much of a reach beyond that.

Apparently Northern has keg "spheres" that you can only get in the Sudbury area (perchaps the Sault as well-- but definitely not around here). I really want to fucking try one of these.

taylor said...

Ok, I'll settle this shit. Its called Red Baron, its 15$ for 15 beers. I like to drink a whole case then put on goggles and a scarf and pretend to be the red baron. Usually I pass out and crash...ahh good times.

Lloyd the Barber said...

I think you can get it in the 905. Don't listen to Stoeten, it's good stuff

Lloyd the Barber said...

I agree, the cutesy crap is a waste of everyone's time. Sing like a man, no gotdamn falsetto

taylor said...

Stoeten's right.Megadeath and Pantera are waaaaaaaaaaaay better then Foxes or Horses, which btw sound very similar.

Dane lorg said...

ESPN reports A.J.'s signed w/ the fucking Yanks.

Joe said...

I googled "Northern Keg spheres" and landed essays on the political crises of Northern Ireland, Afghanistan and Kosovo, plus some Russian nuclear weaponry as a bonus.

Great falsettos of the world:
Roger Taylor (Queen)
Matthew Bellamy (Muse)
Thom Yorke (Radiohead)

Thanks, Wikipedia. Suck it, everyone else. TGIF.

Joe said...

MLB Trade Rumours has it, too.

Yankee Puma > Braves Puma

2009 has meaning, all of a sudden.

Dane lorg said...

5 years / $82.5

bs said...

2nd rd. pick, fuck

abigail breslin said...

Wow, I really thought we had a chance. Darn



Not

Anonymous said...

BS a 2nd round pick and JP kept him for what? JP is an idiot and should have gotten rid of his ass during the trading deadline.

And looking forward to 2010? What fucking team does that. It's like that horseshit from Wilner about the 2010 team being awfully good. Who knows who won't be injured in 2010 let alone in 2009. Please, it's all a joke. They should get Manny money be damned and that would make a difference with a bunch of these cheap minor league signings like Colon, Pavano or Ponson. They can't spend at least what they spent last year? What a bunch of chumps. I don't care if the loony is devalued the Rogers have more money than God. Go out get Manny go for broke and get going instead 5th place looks likely AND Doc is not sticking around on a losing team. Nice Job, JP BTW and go fuck yourself!

Thom said...

hysterical fan number one!

wheeler said...

Hey, Fuckers! AJ just signed with the Fucking Yankees. 5 years, 82.5 million. Fuck him!

plaing said...

the jays also tendered tallet and frasor... maybe they can move them for a bag of donuts.

Anonymous said...

In Korea, they have $1 a bottle soju (distilled from potatoes and about 22% alcohol). It's good for the locals and some travellers.
-brent in Korea

Anonymous said...

Do you guys think the Jays should try and trade for Daniel Cabrera from the Orioles? He'll cost $4 million per year.

Anonymous said...

At least it will be fun to watch him suffer in NY

No way he can handle the pressure

Torgen said...

Holy crap was Cabrera bad last year. tRA+ of 65. No way he's worth $4M, let alone players too. If they released him and we could sign him to a cheap minor league deal then I'd be willing to risk it. Just give those starts to Richmond or Cecil.

Anonymous said...

CC - sucks in the postseason
AJ - injury prone

The yankees biggest problem was offense and defense and they still havent dont aything to improve it

Thom said...

but that roughly 1/4 billion dollars they just handed out to two guys sure gets a lot of head lines.

Wil McCool said...

AJ in NYC?
Ladies and Gentleman, the new Ed Whitson.

Andy Mc said...

AJ is gonna go on the DL 1/2 the season. Just wait.

I do agree, however, that JP should have traded him at the deadline.

Anonymous said...

AJ is going to rock NY. I hate to say it, but it's true. He's a risk, sure, but he looked damn good last season once he got his fingernail/curveball issues figured out. The Jays have picked the worst possible time to be also-ran penny-pinching wankers. The Bluebirds are regressing badly, while the competition is blowing past them. Anyone with any foresight can see what's happening...the Expos of the early 21st century. The team plays in Canada's wealthiest city, one with a booming regional population, and no one gives a damn about the team. The Jays are going to suck, 4th or 5th place, and no one is going to come out to see another crap team (except Boston, Detroit, and New York fans).

They're also going to suck in 2010 because the competition is better. And when Snider has become a superstar, the Yankees will poach him too. Time to face facts.

Torgen said...

Anonymous, the rules haven't suddenly changed to allow the Yankees to take Snider before we've had our 6 years of him.

Anonymous said...

Fuck off Parkes

Anonymous said...

Fuck off aj

Anonymous said...

Doc's going to the Spanks in 2011 if not sooner. Here's a nightmare for you. You know they'll win the World Series in Game 7 against the Mets at brand new Spankee Stadium and Doc and aj will bang each other on the mound like Stoten and Parks before Stoten punches Parks out his asscheeks!

At least we got Haerther and Clements. Hopefully we get Walrond back too.

Fuck, it sucks being a Jays fan.

Merry Xmas and go fuck yourselves, bitchez!

Anonymous said...

anon 10:45, fuck off clitdick, get your own fuckin lines, im the original fuck off parkes

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Anonymous said...

Torgen: my point is that Snider will be right in his prime when he hits free agency. The Jays might be able to buy out a year or two of his FA years, but he'll be around 27-28 when teams like the NYY have him in their sights. Sort of like Teixeira now.

I don't see Halladay going to the Yankees, but I could easily seem him gone in a year or two. But the Jays will get less in return if the rest of baseball knows they're desperate to unload him.

Owners like Rogers want to have it both ways. They want the status and marketing clout of having a MLB team, but they're unwilling to do what it takes to win. Granted, these are tough economic times, and I don't really blame them for being conservative. I think the true test will come in 2-3 years when the economy is stronger. Will they step up to the plate, or continue to pussyfoot around? Probably the payroll gap between Boston/NY and Toronto will be insurmountable at that point.

Anonymous said...

I don't think JP got a decent offer for AJ at the deadline.
-brent in Korea

plaing said...

there's a few decent names that were non-tendered that i'd take a shot on, including cabrera:
http://www.mlbtraderumors.com/2008/12/non-tendered-pl.html

Anonymous said...

Fuck off anon 1100, you stupid cunt. Daddy pounded your vagina too hard again or your momma clubbed you over the head with her hammer cock!!

arj said...

even jamie cumballs calling out aj... fuck off jamie cumball (on the fan)

Anonymous said...

what will stink worse? the jays in '09 or anon 1100's twat?

Anonymous said...

AJ Burnett = Carl Pavano goodluck yankees

Anonymous said...

fuck off parkes

Kanuck said...

http://images.tsn.ca/images/stories/20081212/burnett_66528.jpg

At least TSN's got a sense of humour about the whole thing. Gah.

Anonymous said...

Does anyone really think aj is worth gambling 16 mil a year on? C'mon. He's a pansy, ow, my fingernail. Always hurt. And now he's in NY. Press conferences and NY Times articles are going to be fun to watch.

Thom said...

well....i've stopped the 'hysterical fan' count. Brent is right; JP would have know the potential suitors for AJ and would thus have known what he potentially stands to get regarding draftpicks. Now Maybe...just MAYBE he didn't get offers as good as that (at least in his view of course). People treat him like his an honest to betsy fucking retard.

As per the Rogers and finances situation. Ever think that regardless of the recession, that the Jays are probably going to be sold off soon (a year?). With the firings and saving of AJ$ etc... this is all looking like they're balancing their books. Businesses do this to make their operations look as good as possible. That also is a potential reason for leaving JP as the sitting duck. You don't want that contract still there with the new guy in when you are shopping this franchise around.

Just thoughts but fuck open your eyes. BTW for some fans up above me here..uhm...Mr.Rogers did die recently. Different thoughts with different people.

Anonymous said...

All this talk about selling the Jays...who knows? THe Rogers are making enough from it to make it work. They should sign Manny and go all the way. If the Jays make it to the playoffs then everything will change attendancewise etc. BUT some podunk place like North Carolina will buy the Jays and revenues will plummet to 50 mill a year!

Joel Healy said...

No more black nailpolish for A.J, Yankees dress code prohibits it.

Thom said...

but he could grow a douche-stache

friendly fucker said...

Fuck em all.

Joel Healy said...

The double-stache is a fine idea. I wonder if Yankees PR is working on his media friendly smile with him yet, instead of the snarl.

Joel said...

Actually, maybe they'll just sell AJ snarl masks at the concession stands as a sequel to the year of the 'stache.

woozlewazzle said...

Who cares what Halladay thinks. He's not running this team and as long as he's better than what you can get via a trade, his thoughts have no relevance whatsoever. Doing a player a 'favour' when it makes the team worse now and for the future is idiocy and really laughable. And this is all assuming that Halladay wants to be elsewhere. Which I don't believe and pretty unfair to put those words in his mouth when he's been nothing but a class act all the way and may be the new Mr. Blue Jay and spend his whole career here.

There's no goodwill to be gained anyways, there's enough people who don't like JP for this to change anything.

Anonymous said...

I believe Halladay is willing to remain loyal to Toronto as long as the organization is doing what it takes to stay competitive. That evidently no longer being the case, my guess is that Roy and Brandi will head for greener pastures when the opportunity arises. No amount of car salesmanship will change that.

mike said...

Thom,

"Ever think that regardless of the recession, that the Jays are probably going to be sold off soon (a year?)."

To whom? And from which bank is this new owner getting financing? Is the buyer planning on keeping the team in Toronto?

"With the firings and saving of AJ$ etc... this is all looking like they're balancing their books. Businesses do this to make their operations look as good as possible."

Because no prospective owner is going to ask for financials going back anything further than the previous 12 months, right? You can't expect someone who prospectively is going to spend $400 million or so to be that bright.

But I guess this statement means that the buyer is Canadian because a new owner who plans on moving the team isn't going to give a crap about the financial picture of an asset operating in a different market.

"That also is a potential reason for leaving JP as the sitting duck. You don't want that contract still there with the new guy in when you are shopping this franchise around."

This just reiterates your belief that the team is being bought by someone with an interest to keep it in Toronto. So, I have to wonder... who could this new owner be?

MLSE would be the logical option. But everything you wrote until this point suggests that the new owners don't have a sense of the financial picture of the team.

Now, I don't have much respect for the hockey acumen of the MLSE board, but if there's one thing those dudes know well, it's how to run a sports business. I'd bet my left nut that those guys at the ACC know exactly what's going on with the finances of their closest entertainment-dollar competitor. And I strongly doubt that the existence of a GM's contract (literally, a rounding error) is going to influence their investment decision one way or the other. Saying that a prospective owner's purchase price (which is the only thing that matters) is going to be influenced by the GM's contract is akin to saying that a prospective owner is going to be concerned with how much the team is paying Marco Scutaro.

"Just thoughts but fuck open your eyes. BTW for some fans up above me here..uhm...Mr.Rogers did die recently. Different thoughts with different people."

Mr. Rogers didn't own the Jays. Rogers Communications owned the Jays (TR owned 7.5% of RCI according to http://finance.aol.com/company/rogers-communications-inc/rci/nys/institutional-ownership). There's a world of difference between the two.

Ted Rogers (or his heirs) - can spend whatever he wants on payroll and literally run naked down the basepaths after each game, screaming the lyrics to George Michaels' 'I Want Your Sex' off-key before burning all the $20 bills from that night's concession sales in center field and no one can do a goddamned thing. (Except probably the other owner, but you get my point.)

Rogers Communications - The owners of the 92% of the shares that aren't owned by Mr. Rogers would probably be pretty pissed as to why the company is being mismanaged, putting a ton of dollars into a business line that offers no hope for a return on investment that resembles any other business operation of the corporation.

Bottom line: the team is best served by a private owner who doesn't give a shit about money (see the encyclopedia entries for: "Steinbrenner, George" or "Cuban, Mark" or even "Huizenga, Wayne"), only winning. Having a publicly traded company (RCI) is bad and having a pension fund (OTPP) is worse.

Don't worry, Thom. You'll probably have a great career writing for the Star. But, like Stoeten mentioned, just learn to spell your fucking name first.

Thom said...

Well..someone slept on the wrong side of the box last night. First of all, it was hypothetical and suggesting a situation. Additionally, there are other companies and groups outside of MLSE than could have interest. I was stating that this could happen and is POSSIBLE reason for balancing books. This IS WHAT COMPANIES DO WHEN THEY ARE SELLING. I am not suggesting that they WILL sell or are PLANNING to. However it is a possible explanation for some of the moves. Ted Rogers, it could be argued, had the Jays as a marketing vehicle for the communications etc.. side of the business. Maybe they want to cut costs in response to a recession, a plan to wait to '10, or there is the possibilty of a sale. A death of a major player does have it's effects. His Son, if he takes over, is known as very conservative and could view the baseball team as not necessarily the best investment at this time and would field for offers. This is all hypothetical. Concerning JP, if you were selling a franchise, would one want to be signing a new..4yr? deal with a GM and other management, such as a president...not really I would imagine. It would make sense to let new owners decide for themselves and not be burdened with those newly acquired contracts. That is a possible reason for the non-extension of JP or why he is just a lame-duck right now. Rogers might not have the majority of the company but he did have the position of Pres and CEO of the company. Fourth Richest Man in canada (net worth). That might hold sway in decisions made. Maybe I'm also wrong here but why is HE listed as the owner (well before he died)
and he also seems the majority owner/founder of the company.

And regarding my name you moron, it is an abbreviation of THOMAS. European usually. Fucking north american prick, there happens to be a world and not just the west way of doing things.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thomas_(name)

mykeh said...

"First of all, it was hypothetical and suggesting a situation."

And here I was thinking you had serious inside information. Silly me.

"Additionally, there are other companies and groups outside of MLSE than could have interest."

You haven't named any. Or suggested where these "other companies and groups" are getting debt capital to finance the purchase. Unless, your suggesting that it's going to be bought with 100% equity. Which wouldn't surprise me, being that I don't think you're very bright as it is.

"I was stating that this could happen and is POSSIBLE reason for balancing books. This IS WHAT COMPANIES DO WHEN THEY ARE SELLING."

Anything could happen of course. And while I don't disagree that a current owner would want to make the asset look as strong as possible to prospective owners, I doubt a change of a few million bucks is going to matter for reasons I laid out in my last comment.

"I am not suggesting that they WILL sell or are PLANNING to. However it is a possible explanation for some of the moves."

Actually, you did suggest that this was the reason why they were making the moves they're making. Otherwise, you would not have said it. You could have easily said "I think they're lowering salary to pay for $10,000 call girls that they plan on giving to the players each night" or "I think they're lowering salary because the company had all its money tied up in Ecuadorian debt"

"Ted Rogers, it could be argued, had the Jays as a marketing vehicle for the communications etc.. side of the business.

I personally think this is why Rogers Corp. (not Ted Rogers) bought the Jays. But I have no idea what their strategy is, having never researched the company.

"Maybe they want to cut costs in response to a recession, a plan to wait to '10, or there is the possibilty of a sale."

Again, you talk of a sale. See above.

"A death of a major player does have it's effects. His Son, if he takes over, is known as very conservative and could view the baseball team as not necessarily the best investment at this time and would field for offers."

The old man wasn't conservative?

"Concerning JP, if you were selling a franchise, would one want to be signing a new..4yr? deal with a GM and other management, such as a president...not really I would imagine."

I think your imagination is as wrong as the spelling of your name (and I'll get to that later). As I said before, the contract of a GM or President is a rounding error to the overall purchase price of a sports franchise. Think.

"It would make sense to let new owners decide for themselves and not be burdened with those newly acquired contracts. That is a possible reason for the non-extension of JP or why he is just a lame-duck right now."

Or perhaps it's the fact that he's been at the helm since 2001 and has yet to make the playoffs or be in a serious pennant race. Hmmmm... which one is more likely? (And I point out that my comments here make no secret of my general admiration of the job Mr. Ricciardi has done.)

"Rogers might not have the majority of the company but he did have the position of Pres and CEO of the company. Fourth Richest Man in canada (net worth). That might hold sway in decisions made. Maybe I'm also wrong here but why is HE listed as the owner (well before he died)
and he also seems the majority owner/founder of the company."

Because I know nothing about the Canadian media industry, I was actually wrong about this. But I looked into it. From what I could gather quickly, TR's estate owns 7.5% of the non-voting class B shares (basically, the shares that trade) and 90% of the thinly traded (but voting) class A shares.

So, now, the estate does have final say on voting matters. And I suppose this means that owners of the voting shares could do whatever they want (but I dont know). Either way, it's more of a grey area since the value of the voting shares are linked to the performance of the non-voting shares. Bad business decisions (i.e. doubling the Jays' payroll or giving away free cable and internet to anyone who misspells the name Tom) would likely hurt demand for the Class B shares, rendering the voting shares worth less. I guess what I'm saying is that the Jays are still not just an asset owned by some rich guy's estate. Rather, they're a small part of a much larger, publicly-traded company whose value is ultimately determined by the voting decisions of some rich guy's estate.

"And regarding my name you moron, it is an abbreviation of THOMAS. European usually. Fucking north american prick, there happens to be a world and not just the west way of doing things."

No... You're kidding, right? Hey, when did this become a soccer blog?

Andy Mc said...

Sell the team to RIM, call it RIM Dome, sign Manny, Win.

If the Jays are sold and moved, I will go on a killing spree like Rambo!

mykeh said...

Hmmmm.....

Average NHL team value: $217 mln (Preds supposedly worth $164 mln)

Average MLB team value: $472 mln (Jays supposedly worth $352 mln)

Also:

RIMM share price 12/17/07: $119

RIMM share price 12/13/08: $39

Anonymous said...

RIM is a public company, so presumably you would have the same cost/profitability issues that would preclude $150M payrolls.

What about someone like Ken Thomson?

I think the Jays are probably screwed unless we get a salary cap.

Anonymous said...

"RIM Dome" lmao... good one dewd

Andy Mc said...

Joke moron.

Torgen said...

I know Doc has said in interviews that he wouldn't want to be a hired gun for a team that was close to the playoffs already. He'd rather get in on the ground floor and carry a team up. That would seem to rule out the Yankees.

mykeh said...

Ken Thomson would be a good idea. If he were a) alive or b) seemed to have any interest in sports franchises when he was still breathing.

mykeh said...

Torgen,

Might that not mean that the Doc simply doesn't want to be a short-term rental?

Anonymous said...

Wiggington is available does anyone think that he can be signed by the Jays(being that JP is trying to get Minor Leaugue signings and Wiggington will be a major league signing)?

It's sad that the Jays might be sold and moved when the lowly Rays and Marlins have revenues that are more than one half lower than the Jays. The assholes who buy the team and move it to bumfuck North Carolina will soon realize that they will make only 50 mill a year! Fuck 'em and JP. I mention JP because of his shitty tenure Doc will walk and the team will be sold. JP has the longest tenure of any GM that hasn't been to the playoffs. This year will be depressing: they can't even fucking afford an 8-10 mill DH like Burrell,Giambi or Bradley after losing so much salary from last year? What a bunch of BS.

Look, they want to sign the Pavano ,pennys, Ponsons and Clements of the world. Fine get four of them for cheap and 2 might work. Stretch out one of the relievers just in case. In addition, if Manny is too expensive sign Burrell, Bradley or Giambi on a one year deal. Or even someone cheaper like Wiggy or Gomes as well. All that activity would bring the payroll to 96 million. Instead,we have JP's garbage about a good team. JP you have a perrenial third place team that is now a fourth place team assface! JP this is your team and it hasn't even sniffed the playoffs, nice job bitchbag.
Bruno Von Rottweiler

PS FUCK YOU JP!

Ian H. said...

I love how for a while there, this thread was all about which alcohol we will use to drown our sorrows next season. I'm thinking moonshine might be appropriate.

Thom said...

I've had Mexican moonshine Mezcal, not my thing but it's cheap! like 2.50 for a 500ml coke bottle of it cheap. Bruno, where did you hear that they are rumoured to be moved? I was mentioning earlier that they possibly might be for sale/available for purchase, but I doubt it would make sense for a buyer to have plans to move this franchise from Toronto. It is a city that will support a winning baseball team. Other franchises have a great ease and potential for moving before Toronto would enter the conversation. For shits-sake Atlanta has had terrible crowds for the amount of winning they did consecutively in the regular season, winning all those division titles.

Andy Mc said...

Fucking bottle of scotch and a revolver if the Jays move.

Thom said...

only one bottle?


only one revolver?

mykeh said...

Who's buying the team and moving it to a smaller media market?

The Mariners had revenues that were 20% higher than Toronto's in '07, according to Forbes. Coincidentally, Forbes also says that the M's are worth a heckuva lot more than the Jays. The Rays were worth $290 mln in '07 but I'd have to imagine that winning a WS caused their relative value to increase.

Ty Wigginton would work but he'll probably want to play every day somewhere... and should get starter money, considering how he played this year in Houston, where he made close to $5 mln.

Brad Penny isn't a free agent and Pat Burrell isn't going to take a one-year deal. Neither will Milton Bradley. Jonny Gomes stinks and can only DH (but he can't hit).

But, right, fuck you JP. It's his fault that the team doesn't sign Manny. Or Texeira. Or trade for Santana and sign A-Rod last year.

Thom said...

Penny isn't a FA? Wiggy would be interesting...every homerun (20-25) would be GETTING WIGGY WITH IT!

Jays sweep by getting wiggy with the
Yanks' Wang.

Thing of the possibilities!

mykeh said...

Sorry, $4.35 mln.

I guess he could DH, pinching time from Lind and Snider.

But I suppose that would just cause more idiocy about how the Jays aren't getting enough power from 1B and DH.

Ari said...

Mike, wtf are you talking about?

Wigginton would probably become our best power hitter, and would only serve to complement our power from LF-DH, in forming platoons and limiting the amount of ABs given to Lind/Snider vs LHP.

Torgen said...

mykeh, welcome to our parallel universe! Someone should get you up to speed in the differences between our versions of Earth. First off, in this one, the Phils won the World Series.
Everyone else, Wigginton probably makes more sense for the Twins. I think they need an everyday third baseman.

mykeh said...

Shit, I screwed up. Don't know what I was thinking... Sort of how you screwed up in giving me a "first off" that didn't have a "second off". Or did your second point to me not make it to my parallel universe?

I think you meant to write "In this universe, the Phils won the World Series". But you didn't. If you're gonna point out my mistakes, don't make any of your own.

Nonetheless, winning the AL pennant unquestionably should increase the Rays' relative value.

Torgen said...

The "second off" would be in the version where I continue because it's not a joke. Maybe that's a third parallel earth.

mike said...

Huh?

I'm sorry, was that English?

Anonymous said...

Don't worry, Thom. You'll probably have a great career writing for the Star. But, like Stoeten mentioned, just learn to spell your fucking name first.

BURN! You got owned, BITCH! You would fit in at the "star". You can't spell your fucking name but maybe you can legally change it to Griffin Jr. or Griffin the 2nd because you'd fuck up spelling junior. Christ, you couldn't spell cat if someone spotted you the c and a. Clitdick!

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