Griffin's HOF Ballot Is To Baseball Analysis What The Farmer's Almanac Is To Weather Forecasting
Snore.
Guess what? The Star's Richard Griffin is fucking useless.
Shocking, I know.
But I do have to hand it to him, it takes balls to call yourself a baseball expert yet, when filling out your ballot for the game's highest honour, to not give a shit how bloody average Jim Rice was outside of the extremely Jim Rice-friendly Fenway Park. Or to ignore Andre Dawson's painfully low OBP-- which, at .323, would be 29 points below Dave Winfield, the next-worse full-time CF or RF in the Hall (though actually, I could almost, due to Expos nostalgia, give him that one).
It takes balls to rage against the dying of the light and still pretend that the "Jack Morris pitched to the score" bullshit argument 3000 (TM) passes even the most basic smell test. Or, you know, to not even mention clearly superior candidates like Trammell, McGwire and Blyleven.
Right fucking on! Don't give these goddamn stat nerds the satisfaction!
Nice calls on Rickey and Tim Raines, though.
(But who cares, right? I mean... we get it. Griffin is what he is. Right? It's just... it's just... hmm, yeah, I guess I don't know why I even bother sometimes either.)
UPDATE: It's official, Jim Rice and Rickey Henderson are in. Rice's career OPS outside of Fenway park: .789. Alex Rios's OPS in 2008: .798. So I guess thirteen or fourteen more years like that one and we should be seeing Alex right alongside him in Cooperstown-- right? Right???
Oh, and his career BABIP is .340 at Fenway and .296 on the road.
Fucking idiots.
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69 comments:
Reashing the same tired argument against Dawson. Lazy.
Dawson shold be in there ... victim of astroturf
Fuck obp - the guy could rake
He thought that Henderson had "retired". That's really funny.
-brent in Korea
haha, yeah, fuck the most important stat in baseball! fuck touchdowns too, dan marino sucked!
I used to watch Dawson live in Montreal. The Hawk was the man in field with that rifle fucking arm.
At least Griffin writes (although that is about the only good thing I can say about him) anyone else notice that neither Blair or McLeod have put anything on the blog in a month, and Blair hasn't written much more in the main paper in the same time period?
I wonder if this has anything to do with the staffing cuts at the Globe?
Fuck off Parkes
How do you "pitch to the score"? So if Jack Morris had a 5 run lead he would allow 4 just to make a game of it? And once it was close he'd think 'shit, i better start trying now.'?
"Pitched to the score." That makes no. fucking. sense.
At least it's an article about baseball and not about the who gives a fuck Raptors.
It's amazing that, after all this time, that picture doesn't get old.
Ya but I still miss ManBearPig
Pitching to the score is not hard to understand. It means if you're not careful about location or pitch selection, you get rocked. It's probably a good reason to exclude someone from the HOF.
Doc pitches to the score, and doesn't get rocked. I'm sure he pounds the zone more and has more balls in play when he's got a huge lead.....but that's just a subjective feel, could be wrong.
Where's Ken Tremendous when you need him?
I wouldn't put Jack Morris in, but I loved to watch his games.
You really think Trammel is a superior candidate, though? He was a good shortstop, but was barely in the top 5 for his era. (Smith, Ripken, Fernandez...and someone I'm forgetting).
Trammell is right up there with Ripken and Smith-- maybe better than Smith, depending on how much you think Ozzie's defence made up for his offence. I fucking love Tony, don't get me wrong, but Trammell was definitely better. I can go into this later more, but no time now-- except to say: most similar on BR to Barry Larkin, and looks even better than him (who is borderline) because his career started 9 years earlier. Should have been MVP in '87 (sorry George) and probably '84, and basically had a seriously good 16 year run (albeit with some off years and a number of outstanding years mixed together). Not the most airtight case, but definitely better than Jim Rice-- and as much as I liked Dawson and agree he was a victim of the turf and was a monster defender and a great player in a lot of ways, the OBP is just... ugh.
point is that every pitcher pitches to the score, and the HOF guys still end up with better stats than morris.
I dont think Dawson should get in either, nor should Rice. Loved Dawson though.
I'm not saying Trammell doesn't have credentials, I just wouldn't say he's "clearly superior" of a candidate than Morris, that's all. As I mentioned, I don't think Morris should get in either, but he's still got some arguments in his favour.
Of course, I'm probably the last person who should be involved in this discussion, because I'm definitely a "small-hall" kind of guy. I don't even think McGwire should get in, and it has nothing to do with steroids.
Upon further research, I change my mind. McGwire's definitely a HOFer. Haven't really taken a good look at his stats in a while. Sucks for him he's getting blacklisted.
Yeah, I mean... I'm with everybody else that obviously those numbers are juiced and it's fucked, but baseball made this bed, and the fact that they let these guys keep playing and didn't test them, I think that means that you have to consider them for the hall. Obviously a lot of the BBWAA doesn't, but it's just unfair to include or exclude guys because of what you suspect about their drug use. Clemens, Bonds, McGwire, Palmeiro, they'd all get my hypothetical vote.
I'm reading a book right now, The Echoing Green, which is about how the Giants cheated to win the pennant that year(Shot Heard 'Round the World) by stealing signs with a telescope. The book talks about all sorts of ways players cheated for years, even mentioning the first documented case of a player using steroids in 1867! (for the record, it was a horse tranquilizer). Willie Mays apparently loved the sign-stealing scheme, and seemed to have benefitted from it.
I'm completely against the use of steroids(unless they somehow played a role in the Jays success, of course!) but blacklisting guys after the fact is ridiculous.
MIchael Young wants to be traded, he would be a good pickup
Horrible, actually, because of the contract (5/$80M still left) and the fact he's slowly becoming a disaster at SS, which is why he wants a trade-- the Rangers asked him to move to third so Elvis Andrus can take over at short. Real team player too, obviously.
And he's OPS+'d 108, 107 and 96 the last three years, which is good for a guy who can play SS, but not so hot at 3B, 1B or DH, which is where he's headed. (Plus, those are the last three years in order, so he appears to be declining at the plate.)
Oh, and as to stuff before, Brendan, I think you're right that "clearly" superior is too much of a stretch.
At least Griffin writes (although that is about the only good thing I can say about him) anyone else notice that neither Blair or McLeod have put anything on the blog in a month, and Blair hasn't written much more in the main paper in the same time period?
I wonder if this has anything to do with the staffing cuts at the Globe?
I have no insight into this, but Blairsy is off the baseball beat and doing the General Sports Columnist thing, so he's still around. Hopefully MacLeod is just resting up for Spring Training. I mean, it's not like there's anything to write about these days. Yeah, the HOF, but that's more of an opinion guy's thing anyway, so I'd expect Brunt or Blair to weigh in at some point.
Some comments on MLBTradeRumors suggest moving Vernon Wells in some sort of move for Michael Young.
Probably (almost definitely) not going to happen, but I would rather over-pay a little for an above-average SS than overpay a lot for an above average CF.
^^ except for the fact that Young would only waive his no-trade to play with his buddy Vern, not to be traded for him.
That, and the contract.
Wow, that actually made me LOL CS. Hilarious.
I'm not so down on Young. He can still hit (he had a broken finger last year, so let's cut him some slack on that) He's not great defensively, but you'd think the best defensive 3rd basemen in the game and one of the best defensive 2nd basemen in the game to either side of him might make average defense for than acceptable for a career .300 hitter. Not sure where his power has gone the last few years but I still think he'd look good in the powder blue on flash back fridays.
Young isn't going to be at SS for long, and he's not above average anywhere else-- hasn't been for three years, at least.
Vernon, even though people don't want to believe it, may very well opting out of that contract-- depending on how he plays the next couple of years and what the market is like when he gets the chance. There's a huge risk that he doesn't, but I'd still rather have that albatross than Young. At least VW can be OK if you stick him in a corner OF spot or eventually at DH. Young would have to play second to be worth anything, because he's not going to be a capable SS much longer (or maybe already isn't), and we already have a younger, cheaper guy.
Young's OBP since his one excellent year in 2005 (where he actually produced to the level of his contract: 331/385/513 131 OPS+ 24 HR) has gone .385, .356, .366, .339.
Or, put another way, last year's .284/.339/.402 for Young was similar to Rios's .291/.337/.461, except without the power*, stolen bases or defense.
Um... pass.
* meaning doubles, because Rios only out-HR'd him by three, but had 11 more doubles
Rice made it. Ugh.
Career OPS outside of Fenway: .789.
Alex Rios' 2008 OPS: .798.
Think about that.
George W. Bush, next commissioner of major league baseball?
Brunt may write about the HOF but has not cast his ballot since McGwire became eligible.
True-- and with excellent reasoning, I think. I think he talked about it when he was on our podcast.
I don't think stealing signs is actually cheating.. anyone know if there is anything in the rule book about that?
Well, but there was nothing in the rule book about steroids-- so the argument goes.
But, I mean, if you don't want your signs stolen, you change them up often enough so that, even if someone sees it, they won't know what you mean. Right, Bill Belicheck?
(He says "Right".)
If Rios played 80 games/yr at Fenway he would hit 50+ doubles a year... how many times did Rios hit the warning track in LF in '08? Most of those balls are off the monster.
That was the most frustrating part of '08 for me... Rios must have flied out to the track 100 times. Can anybody get a stat like that?
Alex really needs some steroids. Where's Jose when you need him?
Alex-sign stealing is illegal if you aren't doing it with the players/coaches on the field. The Giants were using a telescope and a little electric buzzer to relay the signs. I'm not sure if it was technically illegal(I'm only halfway through the book so far) but it certainly stretches the boundaries of fair play, I'd say. Great book for any baseball history buffs, though. I recommend it. Along with Crazy '08 and Summer of '49.
stoeten, vernon wells isn't opting out of 63 million dollars, you fool.
Anonymous, wait until you see what free agents are getting paid when he has the choice before you assume that.
stoeten, vernon wells isn't opting out of 63 million dollars, you fool.
Guy, look at the Torii Hunter contract. Signed when Hunter was one year younger than Vernon will be, and with eerily similar numbers as VW typically puts up. Five years, $90M.
Wouldn't you trade a guaranteed 3/63 for a guaranteed 5/90?
Yeah, maybe after those three you can sign another deal and make more total over those five, but that's a huge amount of risk to take, because who knows if you're going to get hurt or how you're going to decline. Right?
So, if he thinks he can get a Hunter-like deal if he opts out, why wouldn't he?
If Vernon keeps hitting, rebounds defensively, and the market rebounds by the end of the 2011 season, it's definitely a possibility.
But thanks for the thorough explanation of why you think that way, instead of just making a dumb blanket statement and ending it with "you fool", dipshit.
Alex Rios on steroids would be a tremendous player.
I agree Ari, let's accost him in a dark alley and force his hand.
stoeten, he's not going to be a good enough player in 2 years to opt out for a 5/90 contract, you fool.
I just wrote a nice little blip on Tony Fernandez and the pursuit of the .400 mark...
www.johnnymaccabinet.blogspot.com
Alex Rios on coffee would be a tremendous player
dan "the man":
i'm glad you are so modest in the critique of your own blog post.
"nice" lol
Tough crowd tonight, huh Dan...
It was actually pretty good anon.
Now can someone please get a stat on how many times Rios flied out to the warning track in '08?
Can we get the trainers to put some HGH in his cherios or something...
Steroids were illegal under US federal law, so baseball shouldn't have had to make special rules for it is the logic.
Beating your wife is against the law too, but I'm sure there are a few HOFers who did it.
Again, I'm against steroid use in baseball, but I hate the hypocrisy of blacklisting players when their behaviour was ignored by MLB and even the reporters all along.
Young might be worth it if the Jays were upping, not cutting, payroll. Look at it this way: the Jays could play him at SS from 2009-10 (with Scutaro as a super-sub), then move him to 3B for a year or two in 2011, after Rolen leaves/retires. By the time Jackson (SS) and Ahrens (3B) are ready (around 2012), Young will probably be more of a utility player--a nice vet to have around. Perfect, right? Plus, he might gain some extra inspiration playing alongside his best friend Vernon.
On the down side, his career OPS at RC is only 686 (compared to his career mark of 788). Hmm. I hate it when stats don't do what you want them to.
Just checking Rios's 2008 stats. He actually had a pretty good year, all things considered. I remember him looking atrocious at the plate for a long time--his mechanics went completely out the window for a while--but his numbers are really only bad in May (231/270/315). Of course, those are pretty bad numbers. But that was only for a month. The rest of the time he did fine, and he finished strong (877 and 907 OPS in August and September, respectively).
What if they injected themselves in mexico?
Clemens' thought Canada would be pretty safe
greenfrog:
I agree that Rios was fine, he hit 47 doubles for shyt's sake...
BUT it seemed he just missed so many HRs by mere feet...
I wish I could find out just how many times he flew out to the warning track all year in all stadiums... which I doubt I ever will.
chris bosh is such a pussy.
Andy Mc - the answer is 15.
http://mlb.mlb.com/stats/individual_player_hitting_chart.jsp?playerID=425567&statType=1
Andy Mc: you do the math.
"Anonymous said...
Alex Rios on coffee would be a tremendous player"
Lexi happens to be from Coffee. That anon is either pure genius or lucky.
lol
I'm lucky sometimes, I predicted the game that Snider would hit his first homerun. I don't remember the day, but it's in the comments.
But I looked at Rios' page on baseballreference a few days ago to double-check that his name was in fact Alexis so I could rip the someone in the comments section here. So part of my brain was probably looking below at his birthplace thinking, what kind of name for a city is Coffee ?
It's funny but there might be something to this though. Maybe he's dopey all the time, because of the city name he grew up with an aversion to coffee.
for the pedants out there, Coffee is a county
"If Vernon keeps hitting, rebounds defensively, and the market rebounds by the end of the 2011 season, it's definitely a possibility."
Sounds like what the Raptors should be after.
Disrespecting the Farmers' Almanac? That pisses the shit out of me! I guess anybody can just say any malicious and cruel thing they want online.
stoeten, he's not going to be a good enough player in 2 years to opt out for a 5/90 contract, you fool.
That's definitely a possibility, but how the hell can you say this so definitively? If he hits the way he did this year, while actually playing full seasons, and yeah, he probably will be (depending on the market).
Everyone also thought there was no way burnett would ever opt out of his contract when he signed it.
EggMcZactly.
Fuck, I didn't even bother thinking about it being the most remote possibility until not long ago. There are still a lot of variables to say either way, but if someone will guarantee him more than the $63M (more or less regardless of term-- you know, within reason-- like 4/80 or 5/90) he'll take it. Shit, maybe even the Jays can restructure.
It's probably just as likely that his defense falls off a cliff and that he doesn't hit enough for anyone to remotely consider such an offer, but he'll only be 33 on opening day 2012, which is the first post-opt-out season, and there's a solid chance he'll still be very good then.
And now that I think of it, this is precisely the reason I'll likely not argue (any longer) to move Rios to CF if VW's defence continues to decline-- because if he's a corner OF, it's going to be a lot less likely he'll get that kind of money than if he can still play a reasonable CF three seasons from now.
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