Drunk Jays Fans: Angry Hitler Has Lost Hope For the Jays

Monday, July 13, 2009

Angry Hitler Has Lost Hope For the Jays

I’m sorry, but I never get sick of these…

The watermark thing disappears after a minute.

Hat tip to the anonymous commenter in the previous post.

64 rational and reasonable comments:

Dan W said...: I normally find these hilarious... and it started out well, but the "analysis" of the situation and the JP bashing was a little much.; July 13, 2009 3:20 PM
Bubbles said...: This is gold. The one about TO coming to the Bills was great, but this takes the cake; July 13, 2009 3:22 PM
Anonymous said...: The 2009 Blue Jay season is now officially over. Do not be disuaded if Vehole Wells has "stronger" second half. He is a total patsy baseball player.

Its very sad to see my Blue Jays, the winners of '92 and '93, not even get into the playoffs for the last 14 (soon to be 15 season.)

For me, the first reason for the Blue Jays failure, is that baseball has no salary cap, so Boston and New York can blow money year after year. The naysayers can point to Tampa, and that is fair. But Boston and New York have a tremendous advantage in having more coin. Unfortunately, Rogers has no intention of putting the Blue Jay budget into the top 5.

Now the second reason (which segues into the Tampa scenario), is that J.P. Ricciardi is a failure as a General Manger after 9 seasons. He was hired by a non-baseball person (Godfrey) and has mediocre ability to create a winning ball club. How he was able to stay so long, is indicative to the pathetic ownership. The contracts to Wells, Rios and B.J., as well as a failure to have a winning attitude, has made J.P. a major liability to this once great franchise.

I said at the beginning of the season that J.P. should be fired. Get rid of him now, before he screws up the trades of Holliday, Rolen, etc.

I wouldn’t be surprised if J.P. was a stooge sent from the Boston Red Sox to destroy the Blue Jays.; July 13, 2009 3:29 PM
Stoeten said...: Do not be disuaded if Vehole Wells has "stronger" second half. He is a total patsy baseball player.

Stopped reading after that.; July 13, 2009 3:30 PM
Robert said...: "it's not that bad. he forgot josh banks."

hilarious.; July 13, 2009 3:33 PM
jaysfanontheinside said...: Great, bus is hitler supposed to be a fan in this skit, or else it makes no sense besides being hilarious; July 13, 2009 3:34 PM
Robert said...: Also, just stop crying sbout the Rios contract. It's a good contract. These people know more than you as they use statistics to back up information, other than "he's bad"

http://www.fangraphs.com/blogs/index.php/rios-wells; July 13, 2009 3:36 PM
Beachjay said...: You could probably make one of these downfall videos for the majority of games the jays play.

Bringing up Josh Banks is fucking classic.; July 13, 2009 3:45 PM
Anonymous said...: .....this is really humorless dreck....if you call this funny you need an actual sense of humor , badly. I guess this explains the juvenile giggling at each others unfunny pointless ramblings in the podcasts.; July 13, 2009 3:54 PM
AE said...: Anon, it's pretty funny. especially when we are all sour on the way things have gone. It lightens it up a bit. But JP should go for sure. He's the real weakness on the team. How many chances can a losing GM get? The jays need a pitbull of a GM that won't take no for an answer.
Raptors, Blue Jays, Maple Leafs...it's all the same shit. Bad front office all around in Toronto.; July 13, 2009 4:01 PM
Scott said...: The :56 second mark sums it up nicely...; July 13, 2009 4:02 PM
SP said...: Anon 3:29, please shut the fuck up. If you want to win 60 games for 10 years so your team can finally compete 10 years later, then stop being a Jays fan and root for the Rays because you evidently how no clue what Rogers' ownership of the Jays is about. Secondly, the only thing separating JP from the "great" GMs of the league is that the others are allowed to make stupid decisions/moves because their ownership can absorb the cost, while JP has almost 0 room for error because Rogers want to be dickholes. Use some context and stop pretending other GMs don't make god-awful signings that they end up having to eat.

Namely,
-Epstein: Dice-K, Drew, Lugo,
-Ned Colletti: Andruw Jones, Furcal, Pierre, and Schmidt
-Cashman: just about everyone
-Hendry: Soriano, Dempster, Fokudome
-Reagins: Hunter, Matthews Jr.; July 13, 2009 4:07 PM
Luap said...: Wells is bound to have a better 2nd half because it's basically impossible for him to play as bad as he did in the first half again. Of course everyone will take this as meaning he only plays when it doesnt count, and those people are fucking retarted.

Although his Rogers Center and RISP #'s are way off this season so those may be better predictor's of his shittyness.; July 13, 2009 4:19 PM
Anonymous said...: That was fucking surreal. Through the whole thing I was thinking how satisfying it would feel if Hitler got his hands on Wells, Rios, Godfrey, and JP. Fuck, this team is a fucking laughing stock.; July 13, 2009 4:27 PM
Anonymous said...: Sure that was surreal, but that was comedy of the highest degree. I want to buy the creator of this piece a drink. Totally fucking brilliant. Register that with the DGC whoever you are, the is some funny shit that some asshole is gone use someday. Funny, funny, funny. Does that make Riccaridi Goebbels? Any ideas who the blue jay equivalent of Rudolph Hess is?; July 13, 2009 4:33 PM
Anonymous said...: Dan W - fuck off, you fuckwipe.; July 13, 2009 4:38 PM
Stevie H. said...: Are we getting to the point with pitching injuries that Brad Arnsberg could be canned after the next guy goes down?

I have no clue if he's the problem, but it seems like a standard baseball PR move kind of thing.; July 13, 2009 4:43 PM
Stoeten said...: .....this is really humorless dreck....if you call this funny you need an actual sense of humor , badly. I guess this explains the juvenile giggling at each others unfunny pointless ramblings in the podcasts.

I love how idiot here hates our podcasts but obviously listens. It's fine that you don't find this funny, but fuck off with the pathetic posturing, dipshit.; July 13, 2009 4:49 PM
Anonymous said...: The shit was most certainly funny. The shit is mostly dead on as well. And this salary cap nonsense has to stop. Look at how many players the sox and the yanks have developed or gotten in trade.

jeter, posada, cano, pettite, joba, caberara, hughes, wang (before he got hurt)

so what they then add a few free agents to fill in the gaps. it is alot of money to spend..but hmmm. tex isnt much more expensive than vernon is he?

sox are even more home grown with players such as pedroia, lowell, ellsbury, beckett, youkilis, varitek, lester, papplebon, gotten either in trade or drafted. remember lowell and beckett came as a result of hanley ramirez.

so dont go pissing and moaning about the jays and the salary cap vs the yanks and the rays. and dont use the classic wilner line of "the rays sucked for ten years which is why they are good now" bs.

the rays core players were not top five picks. they were players that many teams could have had but passed on.

just suck it up and admit that other organizations are run better than the jays.; July 13, 2009 5:00 PM
Anonymous said...: What are we if we are not the current version of the expos? Sorry, what are if we are not on our way to becoming a current version of the expos...the little german in the funny moustache has a point. Anyone?

j.d. toronto; July 13, 2009 5:13 PM
Stoeten said...: You had it and lost it. There is no BS to the Rays losing factoring in on why they're so good. Lots of high picks, lots of guys acquired when they were sellers at the deadline.

You also can't discount how money has helped the Yankees and Sox build their systems by investing in scouting and going over slot on picks.

Yes, the Jays have made HUGE mistakes, but it's just not so simple.

Here are some Rays, FYI:

Longoria - 3rd overall
Upton - 2nd overall
Price - 1st overall
Niemann - 4th overall
Navarro - July deal for Mark Hendrickson (in the one year he was good)
Zobrist - July deal for Aubrey Huff
Bartlett - traded for Delmon Young (1st overall)
Garza - same deal
Kazmir - July deal for Victor Zambrano
Wheeler - July deal for Ty Wigginton

Sure, they've done well to get Crawford, Shields, Sonnanstine, Pena, Iwamura, Balfour, Nelson and Howell. They've definitely made smart trades-- I'm not saying that they haven't done really well. But I'd say the core of the team that you see on the field right now, almost all of them are there because the team was so bad for so long.; July 13, 2009 5:14 PM
Thom said...: damn it stoeten, you beat me to the punch regarding the ray's drafting and such. Good job.; July 13, 2009 5:19 PM
SP said...: The difference between the Yankees, Red Sox and Jays' group of home-grown players is almost negligible, which is even more impressive considering that NY and BOS were able to pay over slot for draft picks, so it somewhat negates the idea of them being better scouters and drafters. Also Hughes and Cabrera? They haven't done jack shit you know. And Lowell and Beckett weren't homegrown.

And what the hell do you mean by "so what they then add a few free agents to fill in the gaps." That's kinda huge. Like, J-Lo's ass HUGE. You're understating the idea of "filling gaps" like it's just a small luxury. No, it's the difference between us having to trade our franchise player and not. It's the difference between a GM having almost no room for error and a GM having the luxury to give out ridiculous contract without fear of it coming back to bite him in the asshole. Seriously, context please.; July 13, 2009 5:29 PM
Anonymous said...: Fuck off Parkes; July 13, 2009 5:30 PM
bitey said...: JP is probably a pretty decent GM and when he gets fired here eventually and gets another job somewhere else and takes that team to the playoffs with a weaker squad than some of the Jays teams he had I'm going to cringe when we get all of the comments whining "WHY COULDN'T HE DO THAT HERE?!?"

And the Rays pretty much lucked into Pena. I don't know how good you can call their scouting when they cut him and only called him back because someone else got hurt.; July 13, 2009 5:37 PM
Stoeten said...: Like, J-Lo's ass HUGE.

Zing! Try the fish! (FYI, it expired in 2003); July 13, 2009 5:39 PM
Anonymous said...: You have to wonder why Balsillie or however you spell that doesn't try to buy the Jays, would make sense from both sides. Nothing like having Captain Queeg running the loonie ship.; July 13, 2009 5:43 PM
Stoeten said...: That's been mentioned around here before, actually-- though not for a while. I don't know anyone who wouldn't fucking welcome it. At least until he moves them to Hamilton.; July 13, 2009 5:52 PM
Anonymous said...: ill give you longoria and upton

but price isnt an integral component of the team's success. niemann neither.

as for the rest, you are proving my point. anyone could have had pena. bartlett was acquired with garza in a trade where they fleeced the twins

sure they rays did benefit somewhat from their lofty drafting status, but common, give them some credit...at least this new regime knows what they are doing.

and they DID hit on their early first round picks unlike so so many other teams. stop hating on the rays.; July 13, 2009 7:23 PM
Stoeten said...: Don't want to come off too argumentative here, but I would say that 2/5 of the starting rotation is pretty integral. And I think I absolutely gave them credit-- they've done VERY well in trades, and in signings. Pena is a huge find, Iwamura is a great signing, and Burrell, even though he hasn't got it going yet, should still be a great deal. However, just like I said before, there are a whole ton of guys who are on the team explicitly because they were so awful for so long. For a long time they were able to trade their better players-- which, because they were awful, were guys like Huff, Hendrickson, Zambrano and Wigginton-- to teams making playoff pushes, in exchange for prospects who are now panning out.

The Jays could-- and definitely SHOULD-- have been doing this, but there are other factors at play: specifically, at least in my belief, the Jays' ownership's focus on attendance/income/TV ratings, which meant that the Jays, in the Ricciardi era, have rarely conceded the season in July, when these kinds of trades are being made. Maybe sometimes it was even legitimate to stand pat on the premise that they might get themselves into a race-- they always seem to be in a position where it's possible, if not realistic-- but for the most part, Ricciardi just hasn't been able to build his team that way. He'd have come a lot closer to having lost his job if he tried.

And yes, they destroyed the Twins in the Garza trade, but the only reason they had the piece to trade was because they'd "earned" him as a first overall pick.; July 13, 2009 7:47 PM
Tony said...: The Josh Banks reference pushed this one over the top for me. A+ work.

Um... is the thing about Riccardi's paying people to not play for the Jays being more than the Pirates' payroll... is that true? I know that it's probably unfair to JP, but if that's true, YIKES.; July 13, 2009 7:56 PM
Anonymous said...: i realize this comparison is inappropriate on a couple of levels....but for my money gobbels=propaganda=wilner

had to get that off my chest; July 13, 2009 8:25 PM
Anonymous said...: I'm done with baseball. You can all shove this game up your fucking ass.; July 13, 2009 8:39 PM
Stoeten said...: gobbels=propaganda=wilner

It's OK, you are obviously a fucking idiot, that's all.; July 13, 2009 8:47 PM
SP said...: Stoeten 7:47 nailed it

Also, I'm calling bullshit on Bartlett this year. He's almost 30 and was barely a ML-caliber player before this year. TBR still ripped the Twins in that trade though.; July 13, 2009 9:10 PM
Anonymous said...: No way Wilner is a gobells, he is not a homer, had to say that in Mikes's defences. Come on guys, it's all in fun.

j.d. toronto; July 13, 2009 9:20 PM
greenfrog said...: Yup, as much as everyone trots out the "well, if you want to lose 100 games a year for the next ten years," etc., the Rays have augmented their drafting with some damn fine personnel moves. The Garza/Bartlett trade, the Zobrist trade, the Pena signing...I mean, those are awesome moves. JP has done reasonably well with more incremental moves (for example, Scutaro, Rolen, Richmond, Downs, Stairs, Zaun), but hasn't pulled off any *great* moves like those ones.

I actually think the Jays have a chance to become the poor man's Tampa within the next 12 months without a string of losing seasons. Think about it: if the team wins, say, 75 games this year, they'll have a high draft pick in '10, plus two high picks for Scutaro, plus (potentially) a bonanza for Halladay (along the lines of Drabek, Taylor, Knapp, Donald and Marson), a core of Lind/Hill/Rios/Snider and a ton of quality young pitching depth.

The team still needs to spend more money, and somehow deal with Vernon's contract, but that's a reasonable start to an accelerated rebuilding project.; July 13, 2009 9:23 PM
Anonymous said...: @ SP, no one nailed anything! The fucking Pirates have the same first round picks, WHERE THE FUCK ARE THEY RIGHT NOW? With a bad GM and stupid ownership they still suck. Look at what they got for Nady ,McClouth and Bay in the last year.....garbage! On the other hand, the Stu Sternberg folks have wisely traded and signed free agents IN ADDITION to getting those high draft picks. Whover still buys that bull about the Rays and the first round picks is still in love with JP.

The Rogers made what a 1.1 billion dollar profit last year ,right? They fucking own the radio station the Jays play on, the cable station AND the cable provider (and the stadium)! I mean pony up the money guys, no team has that kind of vertical and horizontal integration of a team in baseball. The owners are tightwads.

Anon @ 3:29, absolutely brilliant post, one of the best yet. The fact that bolsters its weight is that stoeten ignored it , then it means it's gotta make sense!Some people want to keep on blithering 'bout the Rays and how they sucked and not look and see how shitty JP has been as a GM. Thanks for your post, job well done.; July 13, 2009 9:27 PM
SP said...: Maybe he was ignored because he doesn't know how to spell our franchise player's name. Seriously, if you spell it Holliday, you deserve to die.; July 13, 2009 10:09 PM
SP said...: I've posted this list here a couple times already but here it is again, using full 20/20 hindsight. You can judge for yourself which ones you wanna call "great":

-Dumped Raul Mondesi, Alex Gonzalez, Paul Quantrill, Brad Fullmer, and Dan Plesac to clear salary early in his tenure when ownership told him to cut payroll
-Got Eric Hinske, who then became ROY, then got fat
-Signed Frank Catalanotto
-Signed Gregg Zaun (underrated catcher)
-Got for Lyle Overbay for very little (Bush, Gross, and Jackson). Overbay delivered an above-900 OPS season, then got a hand injury, but he's still an elite fielding 1B and has great OBP
-Got Bobby Kielty (good prospect at the time) for soon to be FA Shannon Stewart who he couldn’t afford with the payroll at the time
-Traded Bobby Kielty for Ted Lilly (fleeced Billy Beane), despite Kielty not panning out
-Used an asset in Orlando Hudson to fill a need at 3B by getting Glaus. Aaron Hill was coming up and there was a need for a power hitter
-Got Justin Speier in a 3-way trade for Mark Hendrickson. Speier was a great RP as a Blue Jay
-Stole Tallet for nothing. He's been a great RP and now he's even starting
-Signed Scott Downs. One of the best RPs in baseball over the last few seasons.
-Signed Jesse Carlson, a solid left reliever out of nowhere
-Stole Accardo for Hillenbrand. Delivered a great 30 save season.
-Got John McDonald for nothing. Not really a grrreat move, but he was free and he's awesome
-Signed Stairs when everyone pretty much gave up on him
-Turned Glaus into Scott Rolen, the Greatest Blue Jay of All Time, when Glaus demanded a trade. That’s a great return considering it was a trade demand
-Re-signed Halladay (twice), Hill, Rios for great, team-friendly, long-term deals
-Traded for Scutaro (fleeced Beane again). Now he's a starting SS and a really good one at that.
-Has never made a god awful trade like Young for Loaiza or Sirotka for Wells. Actually he hasn’t made a bad trade ever and instead has delivered some steals.
-Nails early round draft picks: Marcum, Hill, Lind, Janssen, Litsch, Purcey, Romero, Snider, Mills, the promising 2007 class with Jackson, Cecil, Arencibia, Ahrens, and Rzep, Cooper, this year's class was well-regarded by scouts also
-Romero is currently making him look good as well even though he was skewered for passing on Tulowitzki. Just goes to show that you have to be patient with draft picks.

As Stoeten said, JP is limited by owners who treat their team like a cash cow more than any other team in baseball. It is almost completely an advertising vehicle for Rogers so they won't take risks with risky trades, big FA signings (like Manny big), high payrolls to compete with NYY/BOS, paying over slot for draft picks (especially HS players), wanting to re-sign Wells to keep a marketable franchise player, considering trading Doc now that Wells signing is backfiring, etc. It all makes sense. I'd love to see what JP could do with a team whose ownership was committed to winning 1st, 2nd, and 3rd.; July 13, 2009 10:27 PM
Stoeten said...: 9:27 idiot, please read what other people write before you start posturing like you're on the right side of an argument.

Nobody is denying that the Rays have done an excellent job, just like nobody is arguing that being bad for that long AUTOMATICALLY is going to make a team a winner-- that you assumed that shows exactly how deeply you're actually thinking about this. And again, if you'd read anything I wrote, you'd see that it's not AT ALL "about the Rays and the first round picks". There have been many trades that the Rays have been in the unique position to make, because they were out of contention by July every year for a decade. I'm sorry, but you're a fucking idiot-- and the fact that you agreed with that earlier post shows it. It's the classic technique of the asshole: try to say that people who agree with me (and therefore probably actually fucking read it, unlike you) are being dishonest and intentionally ignoring things that counter our position, when that's exactly what you're doing, having already concluded that JP sucks, refusing to acknowledge anything else. Fuck off.; July 13, 2009 10:28 PM
Anonymous said...: fuckin eh, greenfrog! this accelerated rebuild could make a hybrid rays/angels type team, with a $100MM payrol for 2010-2012. sign mauer, and a top 3B FA, move lind to 1B, sign respecatble DH, sign scutaro to 3/9, snider up... dangerous team i'd say.; July 13, 2009 10:32 PM
Brad Fullmer Fan said...: Having a high draft pick every year only matters if your team is willing to pay above slot. Which the Jays, if they are cutting payroll, will not do.; July 13, 2009 10:36 PM
greenfrog said...: SP: agreed that JP has made lots of solid moves, but you have to consider that those are *seven* years' worth of personnel moves. That's a long time. I also think you're mixing apples and oranges by listing both draft picks and other moves. If you exclude draft picks (arguably JP's biggest strength over the last four or five years), there isn't a whole lot left.

Downs was a great acquisition. Speier, Cat and Rolen were solid, respectable pickups. A lot of the other moves have resulted in players who have had one or two very good seasons as Blue Jays (Lilly, Carlson, Accardo, Stairs, Scutaro, Zaun, Overbay). He's excelled at finding cheap, replacement-level or average-to-slightly-above (or below) players.

None have been of the calibre of Pena, Garza, Zobrist, Kazmir (or, this year, Bartlett), most of whom helped lead TB to the WS last year.

I'm not saying JP hasn't made a number of astute under-the-radar moves (including unearthing guys like Richmond, Tallet and Collins). And that ownership hasn't been a major problem in building a sustainable, thriving organization (if ownership had simply given JP $100M/year for five years, and stopped messing with the team, the Jays would be in much better shape). And that there isn't a lot of luck in finding gems like Pena and Garza. Those guys could just as easily have flamed out.

BUT I think it's fair to say that for whatever reason, JP hasn't been able to build off his draft and much more modest trade/FA successes with any key moves to acquire young, talented players who have blossomed into stars.; July 13, 2009 10:52 PM
SP said...: Since I'm fair, here's the "bad" list, again using 20/20 hindsight which GM's don't have.

-Cory Koskie signing - Solid but injury-prone 3B. My guess is that management pushed for a Canadian like they did with every other Canadian that's been on the team. Mitigated somewhat by getting Wolfe from the Brewers.
-Got only Brian Cooper in the Brad Fullmer salary dump
-Signed Billy Koch in Jan 2005 for 1 yr/900k, released him that March
-Frank Thomas signing - He was probably the best offensive player of the 2007 season, but the vesting option for the 3rd year was an awful decision. They were forced to release him to avoid it and had to trade Reed Johnson earlier that spring knowing they'd release Thomas, to make room for an every day LF.
-Vernon Wells signing - This signing is widely attributed to be Godfrey's decision and JP was a reluctant buyer. Nevertheless, it's an awful awful contract despite a valid argument that it was market value (see: http://mvn.com/thesouthpaw/2008/11/20/an-in-depth-look-at-vernons-contract.html
-Drafted Russ Adams and passed on good players (probably because of over-slot prices). Adams didn't work out but he was very highly thought of among scouts. In fact, Baseball America ranked the Jays as having the best draft in 2002.
-Relied on Royce Clayton as the every day SS in 2007. Then J-Mac ended up as the starter for 100 games
-Relied on John Thompson and Tomo Ohka as the 4-5 starters in 2007, but it didn't end up hurting the team because of Marcum, McGowan, and Litsch emerging early that year.
-Relied on Jason Phillips as the backup catcher in 2007
-Failed to come up with a league average LF and DH in 2008. Forced to start Mench, Stewart, and Wilkerson for lengthy periods.
-Gary Denbo experiment
-Signed BJ Ryan who was excellent until the TJ surgery. (This entry was in the good column after his first two years but hindsight says bad, really bad)
-Failed to come up with a legit cleanup hitter after Glaus. Then again, except for Bonds, there aren't too many 35 HR guys just lying around. It's pretty unfair to expect a jackpot signing like Pena or Ortiz.

Did I miss anything egregious in either list?; July 13, 2009 10:54 PM
SP said...: Scratch that Fullmer for Cooper one. That's not a very fair complaint for a salary dump. Actually, I'm probably reaching on some of those bad ones.; July 13, 2009 11:01 PM
SP said...: forgot Eckstein; July 13, 2009 11:08 PM
greenfrog said...: I would add:

- Letting Kelvim Escobar walk (by making him an extremely weak offer after the 2003 season). You could put Delgado in the same category, although the fact is the Jays couldn't afford him (which goes back to the ownership issue). The Angels then got three very good seasons out of him at a reasonable price

- You could put Millar/Bautista/Dellucci in 2009 in the same category as Mencherson in 2008. JP seems to have this habit of completely throwing away the production from a position for a half-season or more, almost in a retributive kind of way--the worse they do, the more determined he is to leave 'em in there. If the Jays had signed Abreu (1 year/$5M) in the off-season, they might still be contending for a playoff spot

- Failing to find a remotely adequate shortstop from 2002-08 (and possibly from 2010 on)

- Frequently leaving major holes in the lineup at 2B (prior to Hill), SS, C, DH, LF, thereby offsetting the gains from other positions

For me, the most damning indictment is the failure to develop a coherent strategy for winning (I know a lot of people think there is no such thing--that you just keep improvising from one year to the next). But I think you need a long-term vision. Trying to adapt every year while clinging to a fringy chance of winning and misallocating resources...on the plus side, I think Beeston + co. have finally figured this out.; July 13, 2009 11:25 PM
greenfrog said...: And of course, Chris Carpenter, who, strictly speaking, isn't JP's fault (who knew he would be the one who got away?), but if you want to fasten on one low-percentage guy who has been ten times better than Overbay, Tallet, Stairs, and most of the rest of JP's more modest acquisitions, Carp is the guy.; July 13, 2009 11:31 PM
Anonymous said...: oh i thought of a bad JP move (actually 57 - but one in particular)

caesar izturis (future gold glover, all star)
paul quantrill (future all star)

for Luke Prokopec - one terrible season with jays then returns to dodgers as a free agent

nice salary dump for prospects that!; July 13, 2009 11:34 PM
SP said...: Cesar Izturis sucks and always sucked. Paul Quantrill was a FA and the Jays were on a 50M payroll. Do you not understand what a salary dump is or are you a ruhtard? A salary dump, by definition, means you're not going to get anything close to fair value back.

Also greenfrog, complaining about no re-signing Escobar and especially Delgado is weak sauce. They simply could not be afforded. And how do you know he could've got Abreu?

Also anon, list those 57 you thought of, I dare you.; July 13, 2009 11:40 PM
Anonymous said...: heres the way i always thought of salary dumps...we give up guys getting paid big money...they give us good prospects

jp does a salary dump and we give up the prospect too

he is a true genius; July 13, 2009 11:45 PM
Ryan said...: No mention of Delooshe in the (hilarious) vid? Classic JP signing that has paid out in shit!; July 13, 2009 11:49 PM
Luap said...: You guys are idiots, if you're giving up MLB players for good prospects it's just a fair trade, not a salary dump.

A salary dump is just what the name implies, since another team is taking on your excess salary they are not going to give you anything substantial in return.; July 13, 2009 11:52 PM
Anonymous said...: hey luap can you name one other trade in the history of baseball where the team dumping the salary gave up the superior prospect????

nothing comes to mind; July 14, 2009 12:10 AM
SP said...: Nothing comes to mind huh? How about the Marlins and Expos trading away young players along with salary for almost their entire existence, or the A's under Beane?; July 14, 2009 12:27 AM
Anonymous said...: something speceific SP? something we can really hang our hats on?

one example of an established player being moved to save salary and on top of it, the team moving the established player throws in a prospect who far outperforms the prospect going the other way?

surely jp isnt the only idiot to have ever done this?; July 14, 2009 12:47 AM
brendan said...: i dont see why this team needs to be blown up. give it one more year.

halladay, marcum, romero, cecil starting pitching, super deep bullpen with tallet, frasor, downs for the 7,8,9, one of the best defensive infields in baseball, great speed in the outfield, wells and rios can only play better next year (more in line with their career averages), good possibility of snider being ready to play all season, etc...

i really think this team can play like they did in april and may for a full season if the pitching stays healthy, rios and wells play like they should, and lind and hill keep playing like all starts.

and in jp's defense, the jays really could have been a playoff team if they were in any other division; July 14, 2009 2:20 AM
James said...: Someone mentioned the idea of Balsillie buying the Jays. That would be good, cmon Jim....shit, at this point I think I'd be OK even with MLSE buying the Jays.; July 14, 2009 3:25 AM
Anonymous said...: @ 10:28 pm ASS Stoeten post. You are a dipshit douche and an animal...TOUCHE' cad! You really don't know what you are talking about number one. Now, when you totally misss great posts because of your immaturity and irrestible urge to curse, that shows your true colours. Don't worry ASS, your world will come crashing down. Doc will be gone and your cherished 2010 is out the window. Your world will be shattered and that's OK because you can always curse out people who make sense, while making a fool of yourself while you're at it.; July 14, 2009 7:45 AM
Anonymous said...: Also greenfrog, complaining about no re-signing Escobar and especially Delgado is weak sauce. They simply could not be afforded. And how do you know he could've got Abreu? SP made this comment

SP, one thing, how poor were the Rogers at that time? Were they San Diego Padres broke? Or more like Twins broke? Where the owner is a billionaire and is so cheap. Guess what? They were even worse! They own the radio station the Jays play on, the cable station the cable provider and now the stadium. I'm sick and tired of people acting like the team is so poor and things are so tight. I love how they are trading away their franchise player,Doc, now and people are debating chumps like Carlos! JP has been a very blah GM. Some of his moves were good, and a lot have been so-so and some have been terrible. If he trades Doc, no matter what the haul many fans will be like: Fuck this franchise! So be it. JP ,Godfrey and Rogers are all responsible for this mess,so who shows up in that mythical 2010 season?; July 14, 2009 7:53 AM
Joe said...: Plus trade: Tallet for Buzachero (who resigned with Toronto anyway).; July 14, 2009 10:34 AM
Luap said...: I wasn't defending JP, I think he's a tool and needs to go as well. I was just correcting a lot the dumb anonymous posters ideas of expecting good prospects in return from a salary dump.; July 14, 2009 12:25 PM
Anonymous said...: hey luap.......youve missed the point

jp is the only gm that gives up superior prospects when moving an established player to save salary

the point is to gather prospects no dump them; July 14, 2009 2:33 PM