Layin’ Down The Law
Two weeks of Halladay insanity to go, and I guess we might as well just go with it. So below are all your Halladay-inspired tidbits from today’s KLaw Chat at ESPN, which are mostly just rejected trade scenarios—though there are a couple that make sense, generally involving teams in the NL West. But before we get to that, a couple of notes…
First off, Paul Beeston will be hitting the airwaves on the Fan 590’s Prime Time Sports at 5:20 pm EDT this afternoon, and I hope to fuck he’s confronted with the fact that, if he’d managed to have found a new president by now, we probably wouldn’t be faced with the prospect of letting JP Ricciardi make one of the most important decisions in the history of the franchise immediately before he’s sent packing. And while I personally believe JP will do right by the team in whatever decision he makes—unless he actually takes the Phillies’ collection of shitbags—I’d still say fans are completely valid in thinking that it’s more than a little bit truly fucked. Some answers about where the budget is going in the next couple years would also be swell.
Also, thanks to everybody who made it out to Opera Bob’s for the All-Star Game on Tuesday. Much like Parkes, I don’t exactly remember what the hell went on, but I’m pretty sure it was awesome and completely exceeded our expectations, as far as turnout goes. We’ll definitely have to do it again—actually, I’m already thinking maybe the 4:40 pm (our time) start against Seattle on Wednesday the 29th, which, if my counting is right, will be Halladay’s last start before (gulp) the July 31st non-waiver trade deadline. But we’ll see how that all goes…
Anyway… to the KLaw Chat! (Oh, and on that subject… I’ve never quite figured out which is the least-irritating, most-readable way to format these KLaw Chat questions and answers. Thoughts? Preferences?)
bg (toronto)
Keith, if JP is gone after this year, then how can ownership allow him to make a deal for Halladay? How can they trust him (plus his trading record is spotty at best)
Keith Law
I raised this precise question on Twitter: If you're Rogers, and you've accepted that the next step is a rebuild, is Ricciardi the right GM for that task? Isn't that an appropriate time to consider a change? I'm not calling for his firing - just raising the question. Of course, the Jays probably need to hire a full-time President first.
Ryan D (Waco, TX)
Do you think a package starting with Taylor Teagarden, Neftali Feliz, Kasey Kiker/Blake Beavan, and Mitch Moreland could peak the Blue Jays' interest in Roy Halladay or would Smoak/Holland have to be included?
Keith Law
That package is way too light. If I'm Toronto, I'm looking for something smaller but more impactful.
Brian (Lower Merion)
Klaw- If your Amaro, who are your top 5 most untouchable prospects? Would you agree with Drabek, Taylor, Brown, Knapp, and Happ?
Keith Law
No, no, maybe, no, and no.
Swayne (Delmar NY)
Keith: Great job recently on "Mike and Mike", by the way. Should Brian Cashman be willing to deal Joba or Hughes, and/or Austin Jackson and Jesus Montero in a deal for Roy Halladay? Isn't that excessive? Also: Have you read "The X President" -- terrific alternative fiction by Philip Baruth from a few years back? Great book!!
Keith Law
I don't think it's excessive. We're talking about arguably the best pitcher in baseball, under contract (cheaply) for the next two pennant runs. Never read it.
Andrew (New York City)
Would an offer of Dominic Brown, Kyle Drabek, Jason Donald and Lou Marson be sufficient for Roy Halladay (I am aware from your futures game article, you don't love Drabek and your past articles that you don't love Marson, but that is 2 top 25 prospects from BA's most recent rankings and 2 other at least fairly well regarded guys).
Keith Law
I would not take that offer if I was Toronto, nor would I expect Ricciardi to take it. Marson and Drabek are both overrated, and as much as I like Brown, he's probably two full years away and carries some risk.
Pete (Philly)
why do you think Drabek is overrated? He hits 95 with his fastball and has a curve ball. Not saying you are wrong, just curious to your reasoning.
Keith Law
His fastball is very straight, he doesn't actually pitch at 95, his delivery isn't great, he's already broken down once, he's slight of build, and he's had a lot of off-field issues (mostly before he was drafted). All that makes him sound like a zero, which he's not - he's got an above-average fastball and the curve is a potential out pitch in the big leagues. He's got some dings that reduce his upside and/or increase his risk.
Frank (LA, CA)
Kershaw, Lambo and DeJesus Jr. for Halladay - thoughts?
Keith Law
That is one of the most reasonable suggestions anyone has made in this chat (including the ones I haven't posted). I'm not wild about Lambo or DeJesus, though. It's really about Kershaw - the Jays would be getting a guy with a very good chance to be a #1 for them by 2011.
Flemming (Copenhagen, Denmark)
Just surfed by Neyer's blog - Hughes, A-Jax, Coke and Montero are mentioned as players the Jays may be scouting. Enough for the Jays? Should the Yankees go for it, if it was?
Keith Law
I'm sure the Jays are scouting all the major prospects in each target organization, not just four specific guys. That's nowhere near enough for Halladay.
Doc (Pittsburgh)
Cain, Bumgarner, and Posey for Halladay and Rolen? (With Panda shifting across the diamond to 1st)
Keith Law
Wow. That would be one of the most fun trades I've ever seen. I know a few Giants fans who might march on that park with torches and Molotov cocktails ... I wouldn't do it if I was Sabean, but I don't think it's insane.
Marshall (St. Louis)
Should the Cardinals consider a package for Halladay if it started with trading Rasmus?
Keith Law
I don't think they get him any other way. The lack of impact pitching in their system will be a handicap (and stop talking about Jess Todd, he's a reliever, people).
Todd (Coralville, IA)
Are you as sick of the Halladay trade proposals in this chat as i am? They aren't going to trade him. They put his name out there to see if the Yankees threw the kitchen sink at them. If they were really trying to trade him they would allow teams to negotiate with him. your thoughts?
Keith Law
I agree that they're not likely to trade him, but this is the bulk of what people are asking right now.
Steve (Milwaukee)
Keith, when are you going to read Oscar Woa? I'm waiting for your review at the dish. What else would the Brewer need to include to get Halladay besides Escobar and Gamel? Would it be worth it long-term, or would they be gutting their system too much?
Keith Law
Posted that maybe five weeks ago, right around the draft. They've indicated those two guys are untouchable, which I don't really get, unless Gamel proves he can handle 3b.
Posts
30 rational and reasonable comments:
F F F F F
Your both getting an F
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mkO87mkgcNo
Can you play my song for one of your broadcasts?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VSgNAspjgVQ&feature=related
I am so stoked about the Argos-Stamps game tomorrow night. Who's with me?
Me three
Hopefully Beeston says something beside his typical casual chat with McCowan that has nothing to do with baseball.
Rocket Ismail was the best man!!!
"That package is way too light. If I'm Toronto, I'm looking for something smaller but more impactful."
I usually get around the same response.
The Cubs signed B.J. Ryan
I'd be interested in what, if anything, our president has to say, if of course, it's relevant. Living in Boston has it's massive downfalls.
Anyway, I feel the layout for the KLAW chats seems perfectly fine
KLAW RULES
This Beeston interview is getting pretty interesting..
According to Beeston: money is NOT an issue if the Jays don't resign Halladay.
Hmmmm
My perspective on the interview is Rogers does not seem to have done some aboutface and decided to dismantle the team and go small market. Which is really good.
From what Beeston said, I get the feeling that Roy has given Rogers the impression that he's leaning toward not signing an extension. Now the Jays are scrambling a bit and seeing if someone would be willing to give up the farm for him. That's just the impression I got. It didn't sound anything like Rogers told JP to unload him because he will be too expensive.
Either way, I was REALLY glad to hear that money would not be a reason for Roy leaving. Because that would be fucked. It really seems like the trade talk is a reaction to something Roy has said...not some cost cutting move.
You guys should listen to the interview. It definitely made me think a little differently about the whole thing..
missed the beeston interview. did he tell us why its acceptable that the jays have a lame duck GM and president? how are they supposed to effect any meaningful change?
also, did u ask if manny acta will be hired once jp and cito and beeston are gone?
I have been thinking a lot about this whole lame duck gm thing......the thing is it may not be the case. JP may willingly leave after '10 with his successor already in place. You know that Anthoupolous guy. Of course any new president would have a say in that plan but if Rogers doesn't want to deviate from it, it would explain the lack of a new president.
Here's the interview:
http://www.fan590.com/media.jsp?content=20090716_180324_6252
I WONDER IF WE COULD TURN ORLANDO HUDSON INTO A SHORT STOP
hudson and kershaw now or nao.
After that Beeston interview, I think it's becoming increasingly clear that this whole thing is stemming from Roy wanting out sooner or later. All of his public comments have pretty much been non-douchey ways of saying he's ready to go elsewhere. He's probably said so more clearly behind the scenes.
If that's the case, that's totally fine, it's his right. It's actually pretty nice of him to give that indication this far in advance so that the Jays can try to get a nice return for him.
so if they dont resign doc, it wont be because of money.
who in their right mind believes this? it will be about money. it will only be about money.
if its about doc not wanting to stay because the jays wont be competitive, that would only be true because they jays didnt pony up the MONEY to sign a couple free agent bats, instead of installing fodder like milluccistalettder. otherwise why would doc NOT resign in a place where he is comfortable.
whytf would anyone think JP would suddenly handle a potential Doc-deal by 'doing right by the team'....look at his history, the more at stake the bigger the f-up as far as riciardi goes. if you believe it will be a deal that'lll give you the warm fuzzys you're setting yourself up for crushing dissapointment.
I am so fucking tired of hearing Joba Chamberlin in a deal for Halladay. What a fucking waste of polyester (or wool, or whatever the pinstripes are made of these days).
Regarding the Beeston interview. I don't think he could go to Roys place with a case of Blue because he doesn't drink.
Except to power his fuel cells.
I can handle the idea that the Jays might trade Roy because Roy has said he's unlikely to resign regardless of the money, than I could handle the idea that Rogers has decided to cut costs or something.
The interview actually made me feel quite a lot better. At least it seems like Rogers isn't intending on turning the Jays into the Pirates.
you guys seriously just believe what people tell you?
Interesting. Beeston implies that Doc has asked to be moved, but JP said it was because "we don't have the resources to re-sign Doc a third time". Does Beeston letting everyone know that he asked for a trade lower his value? If so, JP's "lie" was necessary. If not, Beeston fucked up.
Good point, SP. Beeston gave a different impression than JP did. I wonder what the deal is.
Erm...back in the hope dept, Marcum had another a'ight start tonight. This time at AA New Hampshire.
His line:
4.2ip, 3 hits (2 doubles), 0 runs, 2 BB, 4 K's
He was starting against hyped S.F. prospect Madison Bumgarner.
Up with hope, down with dope!
I think Beeston is just saying what needs to be said during trade season. He knows the game. Why would he bother saying (1) Roy has decided he doesn't want to stay in Toronto long-term; and (2) we don't really have the money to sign him, especially if we want to remain competitive going forward? That would just be an invitation for teams to start scaling back their offers.
I put the chances of a Doc-deal at around 25%.
Originally, I thought that Philly had the best shot, but I'm starting to think maybe the Dodgers could be the team that gets him. They have the minor-league talent and the budget. Plus, they know from last year just how significant an impact a marquee player can make. They would have a shot at back-to-back World Series and be much more legitimate against other playoff teams, especially AL ones.
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