Friday Rumours
MLB.com’s Carrie Muskat is reporting that the Jays are actively shopping Roy Halladay, having offered him to the Chicago Cubs. “One thing the Blue Jays did make clear to the Cubs is they want to move Halladay this offseason,” she says, adding that highly regarded SS prospect Starlin Castro is likely high on the Jays’ wish list. Adding so much payroll might not make it feasible for the Cubs, but I have no doubt that it’s true that the Jays are going to do whatever they can this winter to make a deal happen.
The New York Post says that the Yankees claim that they’re not going to trade Nick Swisher, which Yahoo says quashes rumours that supposedly came out yesterday about him being part of a package for Halladay. Uh… hhhwhat?
People are still including the Jays as a possible destination for Milton Bradley. Why won’t this rumour die? Who knows. But, as noted by the Chicago Sun-Times, USA Today says that Tampa is the “clear-cut favourite” to land Bradley—and they should know, because they’re the only paper Bradley thinks is “legit”.
“The Sox are focused on making a major push for Blue Jays ace Roy Halladay, while conceding that Toronto may decide that better offers may be forthcoming at the July trading deadline,” writes Gordon Edes of ESPN about Boston’s off-season plans. “Clay Buchholz figures to remain as the centerpiece of the Boston offer, but the Sox will have to find other pieces to replace the players they sent to the Indians in the Victor Martinez deal: swingman Justin Masterson and minor league lefty Nick Hagadone, the former No. 1 draft pick.”
According to WFAA-TV in Dallas, “Ranger great” Michael Young visited the Dallas Cowboys practice this week, along with his good friend, “Toronto Blue Jays outfielder” Vernon Wells.
According to the Philadelphia Daily News, a Phillies official has said that Dave Perkins’ BS rumour about Pat Gillick coming to the Jays is BS. (At this time.)
The Associated Press profiles Roberto Alomar, whose name will soon be, for the first time, on the Hall of Fame ballot.
Much thanks to Cathal Kelly for the shoutout in the Toronto Star today, even though I’m pretty sure he’s violated a core TorStar directive by actually acknowledging the existence of blogs when he said: “Further proof that the Internet harbours some good in it: Flip Flop Fly Ball, the trippiest baseball blog, has won a book deal. On that tangent, Toronto isn't much of a baseball town any more, but we're the New York Yankees (the '27 Yankees) when it comes to baseball blogs: Tao of Stieb, Drunk Jays Fans, the Mockingbird, Ghostrunner on First, Mop Up Duty, et al. No south-of-49 town even comes close.”
Posts
70 rational and reasonable comments:
have you guys seen this before? it's hunter thompson's "new rules for baseball", pretty awesome:
http://proxy.espn.go.com/espn/page2/story?id=860846
LOVE this post! It's written in the MLB Rumors style (journalistic) rather than the angry, chronic pot head BS that usually colors your work (don't get me wrong, that latter often makes me pee a little b/c laugh so hard, but this one was nails--to the point, quit fucking around).
Maniwakimauler.com!!!!!
Yeah Fingers. You know it's a good post when the word according appears twelve times you fucking cocksucking idiot.
http://www.nypost.com/p/sports/yankees/patience_with_doc_IbKPLlXOteVUJojfHb13aI
"Yankees can wait for Halladay"
Stupid privileged pricks.
Yeah Fingers. You know it's a good post when the word according appears twelve times you fucking cocksucking idiot.
Get a life you fucking clown.
I agree with you fingers.
I'm starting to get tired of the mentally deranged "Stoeten Stalker". SS needs to be told he's pathetic.Sorta sad, really.
Keith Law is getting absolutely ripped apart in the baseball world for using his bias against Carpenter to influence the vote.
K-Law's wonderful statistical analysis in 2002 helped the Blue Jays make baseball history as the only team to ever unconditionally release a future Cy Young award winner.
But at least Carpenter isn't a TWO-TIME Cy winner, thanks in large part to K-Law.
Do the Jays have a protected first round pick this year for where they finished in the standings? I keep hearing "SIGN BAY, SIGN HOLLIDAY", I mean FUCK.
Protected? Do you mean projected?
The Jays have the 11th overall pick in the 2010 draft.
I'm pretty sure only the first ten picks in the MLB draft are protected. So, the Jays lose out by one slot by not losing enough. How depressing.
Keith Law is getting absolutely ripped apart in the baseball world for using his bias against Carpenter to influence the vote.
K-Law's wonderful statistical analysis in 2002 helped the Blue Jays make baseball history as the only team to ever unconditionally release a future Cy Young award winner.
But at least Carpenter isn't a TWO-TIME Cy winner, thanks in large part to K-Law.
Would you care to comment on his arguments at all, or would actually knowing that take away from your assholish righteous indignation, shit for brains?
^^^ Just took a brief look into the KLaw "controversy", and turns out I was bang on: this person has shit for brains.
http://img684.imageshack.us/img684/5115/houseforemanchase.jpg
You know what's really pathetic Stoeten? The little "hissy" feud between you and JB. It's like a fight between Oprah and Ellen. Both are full of shit and both are equally annoying.
@ Radar
Do you really think that the core of this blog (Stoeten, BFF, SP, JB) have any respect for your opinion whatsoever? If your not down with sabermetrics as the be all to end all your a loser and an idiot.
Check out the last podcast where Stoeten references the "idiot old school guy who doesn't like stats that much". Who do you think they're talking about?
The first 15 picks are protected.
And Doc's a fag.
You're right, first 15 picks. My bad.
I am either drunk as a skunk or [and], the following information (about V Wells' contract) just blindsided me:
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2009/writers/joe_posnanski/11/19/anti.awards/index.html
Yes, DJF readers already know the gruesome details of this outrageous contract, but fuuuuuck!!
Stoeten, IFYMITA! It was fantastic!
You suck on Griffin's cock and now Cathy Kelly's. What an attention whore!
Check out the last podcast where Stoeten references the "idiot old school guy who doesn't like stats that much". Who do you think they're talking about?
That sounds funny. I should start listening to their podcasts again.
@ anon 7:04 (SS)
Trolling again? Didn't know BFF, SP and JB were the core of this blog.But again you missed the point. Sabermetrics ARE a valuable tool, in the proper context.
As to myself being referred to as
"idiot old school guy who doesn't like stats that much" on a podacst.
I didn't think my opinion garnered that much respect.Could you tell me which podcast it was?
I want to send copies to all my relatives. Guess I'm famous. I am so proud.A round for everybody , on me.Hell , I don't think BFF has even been mentioned on a podcast before and he's been trying for years.
WOW, First I'd like to thank the academy,my agent and my team mates.I can't forget my early coaches and Mr. Fisher who taught me the game. Last, but most important, the fans like youself ,who make it all worthwhile.
Fuck anon (SS), you're still patheic.
patheic= pathetic
http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/several_2009_mlb_awards
Thanks SP
Funny stuff
Stoeten, which argument would that be?
The one where Law penalizes Carpenter for pitching 26 fewer innings due to injury? The Cy Young award is based on how a pitcher performs while on the mound, missing 4 starts doesn't take away from his performance in the 28 games he pitched.
Or the one where Law penalizes Carpenter for supposedly having a better defense and bullpen ... and yet he apparently didn't use the same defense & bullpen criteria against Wainright who happened to have the SAME FUCKING DEFENSE AND BULLPEN as Carpenter.
Again, explain to me how Law can use FIP as his primary reason to vote Wainwright over Carpenter when Carpenter's FIP (along with his WHIP, ERA and Record) were all superior to Wainwright.
And are you REALLY going to ignore all the other statistical advantages Carpenter has over Vazquez and point to Vazquez's FIP being .001 better than Carpenter? Really?
Keith Law loves being in the spotlight, we all know he's an attention whore. Too bad all the negative attention he's getting from his completely biased voting is causing a spotlight to be shined on his unflattering past. He has also singlehandedly made it more difficult for internet writers to get future voting rights.
Before this week, how many people knew Law was behind the decision to UNCONDITIONALLY RELEASE A FUTURE CY YOUNG AWARD WINNER? Not nearly as many that do now.
"I worked with Keith Law in Toronto and he doesn't have a grip on anything." - BUCK MARTINEZ
Reports: Halladay won't sign extension
ESPN.com
Toronto Blue Jays ace Roy Halladay does not want to resign with Toronto after his contract expires after the 2010 season, according to reports.
Team president and CEO Paul Beeston told the New York Post that Halladay does not want to sign an extension and will become a free agent next offseason.
"We would like to sign him, he is an original Blue Jay and we have never had a pitcher as good as him," Beeston told the Post. "But he is not inclined to sign with us.
Stoeten... YOU A FUCKING FAT LIL BITCH.. GROW A PAIR AND MAN UP.. WILNER JR.. UP IN HERE... STOP DELETING POSTS U FUCKER... STOP THINKING U KING U MAFUCKA... KNOW YOUR ROLE AND SHUT YOUR HOLE..
WHILE IM AT IT... PARKES GO FUCKING DIE YOU FUCKING PRICK.. WEARING THOSE FUCKING SHIRTS TO INTERVIEW JAYS.. WHO THE FUCK DO U THINK U ARE... IM GONNA COMPARE YOU TO FUCKING ROMO YOU FUCKING HOMO...
BERGKAMP... U DA MAN MAFUCKA.... KEEP LIVING THE DREAMM.....
HAVE A NICE DAY MAFUCKA'S
Stoeten should take the lines of my boy The Rock into some consideration...
The Rock is gonna lay the smackdown on your candy ass! The Rock is gonna go down Know Your Role Boulevard, hang that right at Jabroni Drive, and proceed to check your candy ass in at the Smackdown Hotel. Know you role and shut your mouth. If you smell... what the Rock is cookin'!
Hell, I don't think BFF has even been mentioned on a podcast before and he's been trying for years.
As I said, I wouldn't know. I haven't listened to a podcast since Stephen Brunt was last on.
Wow, Radar the one voice of reason, now slurping on Stoeten's cock. How pathetic. Couldn't stand not being part of the cool group eh Radar? Couldn't stand not taking the VORP up the ass for good measure. And by the way genious, it hasn't been me stalking Stoeten. There's a whole big world out there that thinks he's full of shit.
Welcome to your new club shithead.
Anybody wanna take bets on when the drunks will pry themselves away from the bong long enough to write about this:
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/postedsports/archive/2009/11/22/reports-halladay-not-interested-in-staying-with-blue-jays.aspx
Not that it's worthy of discussion or anything.
I'm sure if it was something truly worthy such as a picture of Justin Bieber wearing a Jays hat, then Parkes would be all over it.
Beeston's quote "...(Halladay) is not inclined to sign with us" is nothing different than the Jays have been saying from the beginning of July. Essentially, "inclined" means he's leaning away from signing with the Jays. This is actually much less definitive than some of the quotes from July.
Yeah, this Halladay "news" is a giant non-story. We've known since July that Halladay didn't plan on re-signing with the Jays unless they were clear playoff competitors. The second Cito Gaston was announced as the coach for next year, and he made his little comments about 2010 being a washout, it was obvious Doc would be going and wouldn't have any reason to re-sign with the Jays.
"Couldn't stand not being part of the cool group eh Radar?"
@ anon 3:46
The cool group? What grade are you in?Did you know you must be at least 16 years old to post here?
Wow , now I'm part of the club. I'm honored. Really. Wait a minute, who's in this club?Ahh, Stoeten, BFF, SP, JB?This was something to aspire to?The pinnacle of belonging to a cool group is a club that these guys are a part of?Oops, I'll decline with thanks.
I'd never belong to a club that would have me as a member.
I do have standards.
We've suspected Doc wouldn't re-sign, but he didn't come out and say it to management until now. And Beeston didn't go on record with it until now.
So clearly the confirmation that Doc has no desire to stay with the Jays is big news, especially for the many fans who had been hopeful that he would sign an extension with us.
Stop stealing my lines Radar.
"We've suspected Doc wouldn't re-sign, but he didn't come out and say it to management until now. And Beeston didn't go on record with it until now."
Both of these statements are wrong. Beeston is not quoting Doc, whereas JP did in July.
As much as we all wish Halladay would stay. Can you blame him for wanting to play in the post season?
He's already signed two extensions with the hope that the Jays would contend.
He's SFL as far as money goes.
He's in a position where every team wants him.
He will have input as to which team gets him.
He is one of the longest serving, starting pitchers NOT to have pitched in the playoffs.
Home grown within the Jays system,loyal,and a class act.The man deserves his shot at a ring.Even he, wishes it was with the Jays but it not to be.Good luck Roy.
Gil, are you saying Beeston is lying? That's a mighty strong accusation, even for this blog.
Don't you think Roy would be publicly furious about Beeston's interview if he DIDN'T tell the front office that he wouldn't resign with us?
As for JP, I recall him saying that Doc initiated the trade exploration. I don't recall him ever saying that Doc has no interest in signing an extension to remain here.
Kind of off topic...
But I notice pretty much all fantasy scenarios involving the Jays trading Doc to the Yanks starts with Joba or Hughes coming back this way.
If Doc does go to the Yankees (which I fucking hope he doesn't), who would you rather have in the package back? Joba or Hughes?
I'd rather Hughes. I feel like Joba is going to flame out, John Rocker style or something.
Hughes
Definitely Hughes.
Definitely Hughes, Montero, AJack as the core, with some young fluff in return for extension window.
Both
Here's a radical thought - If we assume that:
a)We are '(re)building';
b)The next few years will be lean and we accept losing;
c)The silver lining of losing is that we can experiment with our prospects and different roster configurations to really assess what we have; and
d)The collective fan psyche views Roy as a father figure and uses him as a proxy for the myriad ways in which their own fathers have let them down, then:
I think a deal with the Yankees should be preferred, because:
It gives Doc one of the best chances to win now, which would ultimately make the fan base feel good about treating Doc with respect for his loyalty and performance with the Jays. As long as AA sticks to the vision and makes smart long-term moves that fans feel are clearly making us better, I think dealing Doc to the Yanks says "you deserve to win, even if that means raping us on a regular basis. We're probably going to be raped regularly anyways, so you might as well do it and get what you want because you're awesome and soon we'll be awesome and you'll be retired and we'll be winning and you can come back on Flashback Fridays and say "thanks for dealing me and letting me rape you on my way to winning, I recognize that you had my best interests in mind and you were still able to get players that are helping you now, so you go out there now and rape everyone else and I'll watch from the level of excellence and laugh with Beest while he chomps on a cigar and I re-read The Mental ABC's of Pitching and Cito texts with Kevin Millar and Alomar foams from the mouth". Plus we'd still be able to see Doc's awesomeness in Toronto on a regular basis, and we all know how the organization uses fond memories as the basis of its marketing strategy.
Of course this would only feel good if we get at least Hughes, Montero, and AJack in return.
Wow, you think it would make the fanbase feel good to see the best player the organization has ever produced pitching for the Yankees and beating the Jays on a regular basis?
I love Roy Halladay, but it would not make me feel good to see him winning the World Series as a Yankee. I would feel the exact opposite of good.
I hope the Dodgers put together an amazing package and he spends the rest of his career in the NL West. Then, I basically never have to see him pitch again. That would be my ideal scenario.
C'mon Canada! Enough is enough! Go to stopdrunkjaysfans.ca and have your say!
Stop ripping Stoeten. It's not his fault he was a fat Asian, then Shrek with a beer mug to cover his face and now he's a sasquatch with a guitar. He fell from the ugly tree and hit every branch on the way down. He was born with three strikes against him but the fucker tries, he really does. In a radio sort of way.
James - I know on the surface the idea of Doc winning a WS with the Yanks rather than the Jays is disgusting. But if you accept the fact that it will now never happen with us, then what does it matter who he wins with as long as he wins? Is it better if he won with LA, St. Louis or Milwaukee? The end result is the same: he wins, we don't.
I think all Jays fans want to see Doc get the ring he deserves, and if we can accept that the Yanks are currently poised to offer him the best chance, and we can take the Yanks' best young talent in the process, why not? It fucks over Boston now (by not getting him) and fucks over the Yanks in the long-term, forcing them to go mainly with their overpay-free-agents strategy which will inevitably yield some seriously under-performing players for them (assuming of course they don't have any other prospects who turn out to be great in the interim). A deal with the Yanks is also more likely to happen since they can extend him no problem. Why get all worked up about trades with teams that won't give what it takes because the optics don't mesh?
I don't think this is the one and only good deal we can get for Doc, but I think our judgment as fans is often too clouded by Yankee/Sox rage. I've accepted that we're not going to win it in the next few years, and also admire Doc to such an extent that I would be genuinely thrilled if/when he wins a ring (and I'm probably not alone). So really, who cares if he goes to the Yanks?
You trade Halladay to the team that gives you the best deal. It's that simple.
I agree BFF - my point is that we should not only not discourage a deal with the Yankees, but could look at such a deal as offering a bit of value added rather than diminished value based on them being the Yankees, which is going aginst conventional wisdom thus far.
I think I get what you're saying, punchy. And I do agree that the Jays have got to take the best deal.. but God, I still would fucking hate to see Roy on the Yanks or BoSox.
I guess the only good thing about that scenario is that if the Jays win the deal (ie get an awesome set of young players combined with a declining, overpaid Doc) then the Jays improve themselves, and hurt the Yanks/Sox at the same time. Of course the exact opposite applies if the deal sucks for the Jays obviously.
"Gil, are you saying Beeston is lying? That's a mighty strong accusation, even for this blog.
Don't you think Roy would be publicly furious about Beeston's interview if he DIDN'T tell the front office that he wouldn't resign with us?
As for JP, I recall him saying that Doc initiated the trade exploration. I don't recall him ever saying that Doc has no interest in signing an extension to remain here."
Holy crap, you're an idiot. When did Beeston say that Doc had "no interest in signing an extension"? Did you read the article?
The Jays have known for a while that Doc is likely to sign elsewhere and they've been telling us that since the first week of July. Do keep up.
Anon 9:59, read the ESPN article again. I've copied it below for your convenience. It would be impossible for them to spell it out any more clearly.
BTW - There's a big difference between "likely" and "will not".
Reports: Halladay won't sign extension
Toronto Blue Jays ace Roy Halladay does not want to re-sign with Toronto after his contract expires after the 2010 season, according to reports.
Team president and CEO Paul Beeston told the New York Post that Halladay does not want to sign an extension and will become a free agent next offseason.
You do not trade Halladay within the division, you stupid fucks. He will actively prevent us ever getting to the playoffs, since he will be dominant for another 8-9 years. The SAME FUCKING THING HAPPENED WHEN WE DEALT CLEMENS AND CONE TO THE YANKEES. You stupid, stupid motherfuckers.
When Clemens moved from Boston to Toronto ('97-'98) and then New York ('99-'03) he didn't "actively prevent" Boston from getting to the playoffs in 1998 or 1999 or 2003.
One player does not a team make.
The thing with Doc to the Yankees is that it would eat up a lot of their prospective talent (hopefully). The modern Yankees are always cyclic because of the massive long term contracts they sign (ie. the Yankees the past few years before the restock last summer). By trading Doc now, he gets in on the "Yankees prime" and has a few years of guaranteed playoffs. We get the prospects that would likely spell the old guys at the back end of the Yankee cycle and in a few years time induce another Yankee "holy fuck we're old" collapse. All things being equal, said collapse is once again our window, after which the Yankees contracts expire and they reload shortly thereafter, rinse, repeat, ad nauseum.
This, of course, is highly dependent on what we get from the Yankees, and of course how Baltimore, Tampa and Boston look in a few years time. You have to figure, though, that the Yankees will be in rough shape in a few (3-4-5?) years, as I seriously doubt AJ, CC, Posada, Teix, Jeter, ARod, etc. will be elite players by then, and one would have to assume that this collective group is owed way too much in the back end of their contracts to "disappear."
Perhaps this is the only way I can rationalize a Doc-Yankees swap. I'd much prefer a Doc-Yankee swap than a Doc-Boston swap, as, for the most part, Boston deals in short(er)-term contracts than the Yankees to maintain flexibility. I can see a Doc-Boston swap biting us in the ass for 8-9 years much more than a Doc-Yankees swap would.
The Yankees are going to be the best team in the league, basically every season, whether they have Halladay or not.
Take the best deal.
Anon 1:36, the Yankees have absolutely no problem eating a contract by releasing a player or trading the player and agreeing to continue paying a large portion of that contract.
They also have the ability to replace underperforming and former players every year by simply signing the best available free agents.
They lost two aces from the 2008 season, Wang and Mussina. It wasn't hard to replace them with the two best free agent pitchers last year. They also lost their starting first baseman, they wasted no time replacing him.
The main reason the Yankees missed the playoffs last year for the first time in 15 seasons was injuries, it had nothing to do with age. In fact last year they infused a lot of youth (Phelps, Kennedy, Chamberlain, etc) and it just didn't work out.
I hate to agree with Fullmer, but he's correct. If the Yankees don't get Doc they will sign Lackey or Chapman, probably both. Then next year they'll sign Doc as a free agent. You can't prevent them from buying the shiniest toys every year, they have just too much money to stop them.
I'll tell you this though, we do NOT want Chamberlain. He is physically and mentally not sound.
lol, are those a pair of faux balls hanging from Mike Fleetwood's crotch in that pic?
Anon 10:11, nice quoting of the ESPN article. Where is the Beeston quote?
Regards,
Smart People.
I have no problem trading Doc to the Yanks, but it has to be the best deal and it must include Hughes.
I doubt Halladay will dominate for 8-9 years. He is going into his 33rd year with a lot of innings under his belt. Chances are he only has another 4 years (37) left in his career but you never know. Even if he extends past that, you probably won't see the types of seasons you see now but would have to pay top dollar for his past performances. I could never imagine Roy Halladay extending his career through the magical youth formula that Clemens or (unfair speculation here) Randy Johnson used.
Phil Hughes *could* be Roy Halladay all over again but with fewer dollars. Perhaps it would be the Yankees (or whoever does the trade) that will regret it for many years and keep them out of the playoffs. The Yankees are stuck with a bunch of contracts that could get them in trouble in 5 years (Sabithia, Burnett, A-Rod).
Anon 11:14 & 10:46am - exactly. I love Roy but its highly unlikely he'd be very effective at 41-42 and would certainly retire or kill himself rather than take the mound as Jamie Moyer.
I still maintain: a deal with the Yanks must include Hughes, Montero, and AJack as the core, and its hard to see other teams pony up that kind of return based on whats been discussed to this point. Absolutely no Joba, as much as I'd love to see the Gary Busey of retarded pitchers stab Cito with a toothbrush after getting pulled.
I think Ken Rosenthal realizes he's pissed us all off a lot lately, so he's trying to make up for it with this story:
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/10416132/Blue-Jays-bring-in-more-scouts-to-help-fill-roster
It includes this:
"Anthopolous, 32, is no old-school throwback, longing for the days when teams relied solely on scouts' opinions and not computers. Quite the contrary. He grew up reading Bill James, believes in blending subjective and objective analysis, and uses Tom Tango, a leading sabermetrician, as a consultant.
His increased emphasis on scouting, while more retro than radical, is certainly a departure from the current trend. But Anthopoulos sees it like this: So many clubs employ statistical analysis, the numbers no longer offer as significant a competitive advantage."
Also from Ken Rosenthal's article, in case you don't feel like clicking:
"So, what does A's GM Billy Beane, the hero of "Moneyball," think of the Jays' new approach?
He likes it. In fact, he's doing the same thing.
"Alex talked to me about it," Beane says. "We've increased our scouting staff, not as dramatically in one year, but over the last couple of years. Everything is about getting as many looks as you can.""
JB you are a retard
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