Tuesday, November 17, 2009

Jays Will Allow Teams To Negotiate Extension With Halladay

halladayterminator

I guess that because the good doctor picked up a few third place Cy Young votes today, Jordan Bastian of MLB.com couldn’t exactly actually make the most interesting thing he learned today central to his story, but I’m pretty sure that this was the real money quote from his Cy voting piece:

One way for the Blue Jays to potentially get more in a Halladay trade would be to give another team a window in which to discuss a contract extension with the pitcher. Anthopoulos declined comment on such a scenario, but MLB.com has learned that the Jays will consider granting such a window in trade talks if it means the return is significantly greater.

Now, my first thought is that it would be pretty difficult to not get significantly more in return for him if they allowed their trade partner to negotiate an extension, except… if this summer was any indication, the Jays may be asking for so much to begin with that nobody will be willing to go even farther to lock him up long-term.

Still… what’s it to the Jays? Even if the return is just greater and not significantly greater, what exactly are they protecting?

It’s basically in everybody’s interest to do it this way, except for maybe the odd team who really would only want Halladay for one relatively cheap year at $15.75-million, so they can go for it next year. I have nothing to back it up, but I’d assume that for all the teams that would be discouraged by having to sign him long term, there’d be several more who would only start forking over prospects if they had the opportunity to lock him up.

So… in a way, the Jays willingness to let a team negotiate should make it pretty clear that we’ve seen the last of Halladay in a Jays uniform—as if that shouldn’t have been clear already. I just can’t envision the Jays getting more at the trade deadline for him than they would by letting a team extend him, nor can I imagine them tossing long-term contract negotiations into next summer’s trade deadline shit vortex. And quite obviously the Jays’ threat to keep him and take the draft picks is emptier than the Rogers Centre will be for most of next summer. They don’t want to open their Ricciardis too much on this, but it’s happening. Soon.

Er... probably.

Meanwhile…

Apparently it’s somehow news that Marco Scutaro is open to returning to Toronto, as was first reported by Kenny Ken Ken and JP Morosi at Fox Sports.

I like Scutaro just fine, but I have a hard time seeing how this would be any better than just letting him walk and taking the picks, unless he becomes so discounted by the fact that teams don’t want to give up a high pick for him that it actually makes sense to pay him something for a couple years. Given the timeline the new front office seems to be operating on, though, it the picks might be better regardless.

33 rational and reasonable comments:

Anonymous said...

This also ensures, if we are trading him to a team like the Angels, that the Yankees won't be able to get their grubby fingers on him...

SHK said...

Negotiate an extension? Doc is thinking about his next start.

Stoeten said...

True, but will the Angels have enough money to sign him long term? The Yankees sure will. And I think they have the prospects, too. Ugh.

TSG said...

We have to take some solace in the fact that if Doc were to be traded to a team other than the Yankees and then reach free agency, there's a good chance the Yanks would sign him next winter.

Oh please AA, deal him to the Dodgers or Colorado (or at least the NL). Best possible scenario of this.

Shane said...

True, but will the Angels have enough money to sign him long term? The Yankees sure will. And I think they have the prospects, too. Ugh.

Any reasonable guesses on a possible Yankees package??

Anonymous said...

For me Montero, Jackson, and Hughes is a starting point.I'd also like to have them take on Wells.Jacksons stalk is sliding and Montero is coming off an injury. That said they were two of the top prospects in all of baseball earlier in the year.

As for the Angels I'd look for a package built around Aybar, Bourjos, and Wood/Walden.

Anonymous said...

What about Gamel, Lawrie, Salome, and a minor league pitcher with upside from the Brewers? Melvin said he would make the CC trade again and that's basically it. They could afford to extend Doc for 5yrs/100M...

Anonymous said...

The No Cock Doc!

Anonymous said...

Where would you play Gamel? 1B? 3B? LF?

nitzguy said...

I don't like this, but then I still hold out hope the Jays can re-sign him for 2011.

But realistically, anything to improve the return.

Anonymous said...

Considering there could be multiple holes in the infield and outfield (and coaching staff) in the next few seasons, play Gamel where he is the least defensive liability (I guess thats as batting coach, but probably LF?) and let him mash at the plate. Lawrie could play anywhere also, likely in the infield (3B, 1B, C) but is further away, yet too will mash. Toss the rest of the package up in the air and see who shakes out.

Anonymous said...

What's the point off getting picks for Scutaro when Rogers won't spend the money to sign them?

The quote from Riccardi when they wouldn't sign the picks they got for burnett this year was

"At the end, we weren't giving them enough money, I guess,"

Anonymous said...

Too bad asshole Ricciardi didn't allow teams to negotiate an extension with Doc last summer, that was probably his biggest blunder of the year.

I said it a million times, no team is dumb enough to unload a boatful of top prospects for a 15-month rental.

Anonymous said...

"will the Angels have enough money to sign him long term?"

Are you fucking kidding me? Escobar and Lackey are coming off the books, that's $20 million a year right there. Vlad is another $15 million they won't have to worry about anymore.

Every year since 2004 they've had the 3rd-6th highest payroll in baseball, they aren't afraid to spend money. What the fuck, do you think they are some kind of small market team or something?

Brad Fullmer Fan said...

Stoeten, I'll believe Halladay is gone when I see it. To me, it's going to take a hell of a lot for Beeston to trade him, and even then Paul might not decide to do it anyway.

Stoeten said...

Yeah, but you're kind of a cunt.

Not as bad as dumb and dumber at 9:27 and 10:43, though.

And I think 11:02 might have me.

Anonymous said...

Go fuck yourself, FAT ANDY!

Greg said...

I would love to acquire talent in a Doc trade that could be partially flipped for Joey Votto.

Or maybe I just love 3 ways???

Brian Tallet's Beard said...

Obviously Scoot is (wide) "open" to coming back here. The guy wants to be the man and it's not like many of the teams with $$ have a glaring hole up the middle or want to lob sexy dollars at a 34 year old. We might as well stroke his oily cock and get him back on the cheap. He's in great shape and could probably be effective for the next 3 years. Let's go 2012! Fuck the Mayans!

Anonymous said...

Stoeten, are you saying JP's decision to prevent teams from negotiating an extension did NOT negatively impact what was being offered for Doc?

Or are you just fed up with people trashing JP?

Keep in mind all of the comparable trades that happened in the recent past (Santana to Mets, Schilling to Boston, etc) included the contract extension window.

plain_g said...

i think doc needs to go to the al central so he can win 4 straight cy youngs and prove that the system is broken.

Ty said...

^^^If Doc went to the AL Central and won four straight Cy Youngs, we'd all be hearing about how he's "finally successful because he's surrounded by a winning atmosphere" and how his new team "plays the game the right way" or some bullshit like that.

Bucky Landley said...

Yeah... given the Cy Young award voting I am sure we would hear that.

How did he fall behind CC Cabathia in the Cy Young voting?? Halladay was better across the board except in the all important category of hitting coach.

Sabathia

mapleaf31 said...

i don't think the talk of just taking the two draft picks and letting halladay walk is actually a threat. did you read about the supposed craptacular returns we were being offered for him?? kyle drabek?? that guy might not suck, but he's still a smallish pitcher that probably won't hold up well over a full season. there aren't too many small pitchers that do (lincecum, pedro, oswalt are all that immediately come to mind). i'd rather have one season of halladay plus the longshot odds that we contend next year and might be able to sign him to an extension than get a good-but-not-great prospect like drabek back. unless teams are willing to pony up, we might as well keep him.

hell, roll the dice on bedard, and we've got doc, bedard, romero, marcum, rzepczynski (3 lefties - what you need to beat the yankees); plus mcgowan, plus that guy from cincy who's name a can't remember as potential depth guys.

i really doubt we'd contend, and cito's a horrible manager, but if we make a few good signings (maybe get Nick Johnson to hit second, play 1B and be an OBP machine; move Lind to LF and get a good DH - don't think it would be happen but I'm gonna throw Delgado's name out there; I think his beef was mostly with JP and besides that he still likes toronto), and couple that with good pitching, and who knows. Guys like Bedard, Johnson and Delgado wouldn't cost much and would come on short-term contracts. And if they can stay healthy and Travis Snider develops like it seems he should, our team could be solid. (also, it is ~possible~ that vernon comes back, but i'm just gonna go ahead and pencil him in as a shitty 7-9 hitter for the next few years because he is balls).

....sadly, this is more of a plan B, though - in the case that we would get fuck all for halladay.

mapleaf31 said...

...in short, teams are overvaluing prospects right now, and even if we give teams that negotiating window for an extension, i still don't think we'll get close to what doc is worth.

Silly Erickus said...

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/11/18/sports/baseball/18pitcher.html?_r=2

Zack Greinke uses advanced pitching metrics to his advantage. Take that Richard Griffin!

Anonymous said...

mapleaf31 you are a retard

SP said...

Bannister said Greinke has learned to adjust his pitching based on the advanced defensive statistics. Because of the size of the outfield at Kauffman Stadium and the strength of the Royals’ outfielders, relative to their infielders, it sometimes made more sense to induce fly balls.

“David DeJesus had our best zone rating,” Bannister said, referring to the Royals’ left fielder. “So a lot of times, Zack would pitch for a fly ball at our park instead of a ground ball, just because the zone rating was better in our outfield and it was a big park.”

To that end, Bannister introduced Greinke to FIP, or Fielding Independent Pitching, the statistic Greinke named Tuesday as his favorite. It is a formula that measures how well a pitcher performed, regardless of his fielders. According to fangraphs.com, Greinke had the best FIP in the majors.

“That’s pretty much how I pitch, to try to keep my FIP as low as possible,” Greinke said.


I am so hard right now.

And I said it here recently, but it bears repeating, let's get DeJesus, Christ!

Brad Fullmer Fan said...

If Bannister really wanted to help Greinke, he'd tell him about xFIP (which, he has actually called the best evaluative stats), and to stop pitching for fly balls.

Brad Fullmer Fan said...

Nothing has really changed since last summer in regard to Halladay, by the way. They've just changed puppet GMs. Beeston will have the final say on any major move, and I just don't think he wants to be known as the guy that got rid of the best player in this team's history (nor does he want the casual fans to turn away from the Jays heading into next year).

plain_g said...

let's do what minnesota couldn't do for garnett - repay years of below-market superstardom by GOING FOR IT! HERE YOU GO DOC, FOR ALL THE YEARS YOU KEPT PEOPLE COMING TO THE PARK, WE'RE GOING ALL IN BABY!!! FOR YOU!!

SP said...

They could've done that last year and instead chose to waste a year with a lame duck JP and no spending.

Anonymous said...

"the guy that got rid of the best player in this team's history (nor does he want the casual fans to turn away from the Jays heading into next year)"

Why the fuck would anybody - other than Doc's ballwashers here at DJF - turn away from the Jays if he got traded?

What the fuck, do you think Doc was a big fucking draw in this town?

Look at the goddamn facts. If you don't include the home opener and AJ's big return with the Yankees, the average attendance for Doc's starts was 23,672 while the average attendance for the entire season was 23,162 which means Doc brought in an average of 510 extra fans per start.

Whoop-dee-fucking-doo

And when you consider how many of those extra fans showed up because they thought they would be seeing Doc for the last time, you have conclusive evidence he had ZERO impact on attendance.

Let's not forget only 11,159 showed up for his next-to-last start of the season for chrissakes.

When are you going to get it through your fucking head that this isn't a baseball town and there isn't one goddamn player in all of baseball that would have an impact on attendance in this city.

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