Comments on Drunk Jays Fans: How Many Times Can I Write The Same Goddamn Post?

Just a point to B.J. ... The problem seems very ob...

2008-06-12T14:49:49.521-04:00

Just a point to B.J. ... The problem seems very obvious, and I'm surprised I haven't seen it discussed more in the media, or here, or anywhere.

Remember when Dustin McGowan and Billy Koch had surgery, how all we heard for a year afterwards was, "He's got his velocity back, but he just doesn't have command of the strike zone yet"? Common knowledge suggests that command is the last thing to come back after surgery. McGowan spent a year getting back to the level he had been at before the injury - and he was wild to begin with. for a guy like BJ, who relies on two things - deception and location - wildness can be life or death. He managed to get through April and May on deception alone, but it's become quite clear that other teams have realized that if you wait him out, you're more than likely to either work a walk or get a mistake, because BJ doesn't really know where the ball is going to end up. I wouldn't be opposed to sending him back down to learn how to pitch again, or at the very least demoting him to a LOOGY type role where he's only facing one or two guys an outing.

de Nederlandse overwinning zal groot zijn en de we...

2008-06-12T11:20:58.149-04:00

de Nederlandse overwinning zal groot zijn en de wereld zal de Nederlanders opnieuw vrezen

It's not Go Orange!It's Ga Oranje!and it's the the...

2008-06-12T11:18:19.130-04:00

It's not Go Orange!
It's Ga Oranje!

and it's the the book of Revelation not Revelations.

Stoeten, actually I remember reading an interview ...

2008-06-12T09:13:22.519-04:00

Stoeten, actually I remember reading an interview last year with the O-Dog where he basically said he was happy to be gone from the Jays because of J.P. So Dick didn't pull it out of his ass. It probably came straight from the O-Dog's mouth.

bitch, bitch, bitch - nice info joanna! that was ...

2008-06-12T08:26:38.276-04:00

bitch, bitch, bitch
- nice info joanna! that was cool to hear about pedro. As much as I hate boston, that was a sick string pull/humanitarian act by him.
-

Back to the Hudson comment. You guys must really b...

2008-06-12T01:23:21.063-04:00

Back to the Hudson comment. You guys must really be drunk because you can't remember why J.P. did not like the O-Dog. My brother was an intern with the visiting tv crew that year, so the story made its way around the media circle as the reason why Hudson wasn't up sooner. Remember, that season Homer Bush was released in early MAy and Joe Lawrence (whoa!) was the staring second baseman for a few weeks, shitty times. Go back to Spring Training 2002 here's a snippit from a cbc.ca story.
"Hudson also raised eyebrows earlier this year during spring training when he commented on general manager J.P. Ricciardi's fashion sense.

"When I first met J.P., I thought, 'smooth cat...smooth-looking cat.' He looks like he was a pimp back in his day. He's good dude," the 24-year-old said of his new boss.

The 24-year-old's comments were meant to be complimentary, nonetheless, Ricciardi wasn't amused. Hudson was sent to the minors the next day."

Beau and Sarah, honestly, I've barely been paying ...

2008-06-12T00:40:20.183-04:00

Beau and Sarah, honestly, I've barely been paying attention-- certainly not enough to make an about face on whatever bullshit I've been churning out to this point in the season.

And you're right that they're missing a great oppo...

2008-06-12T00:10:45.010-04:00

And you're right that they're missing a great opportunity with this incredible pitching staff, but that staff isn't going anywhere soon, so there's time, and some stuff you just can't hang on anyone besides the players.

If anyone saw this kinda of shittacular hitting from Alex Rios coming, I don't know who they are. This guy was seen all around baseball as an emerging star. Aaron Hill has regressed too, and Overbay and Rolen aren't quite up to what one could reasonably expect from them either. That's just not JP's fault.

I don't think it's fair to say that anyone's inter...

2008-06-12T00:08:15.264-04:00

I don't think it's fair to say that anyone's interest in Ortiz was "bigtime" before the Sox signed him. If there was, someone would have traded for him before the Twins cut him loose rather than risking missing out. Like I said before, he was signed to be a backup. I'm sure some people expected something good out of him, but the facts don't really suggest that they saw anything approaching MVP-level numbers coming.

I think you're right that JP and Gibby aren't doing anything especially helpful, but neither are they hurting. I guess I just don't see any great argument for replacing either of them besides "change for the sake of change." If you believe in that kind of thing (i.e. "shaking things up") then yeah, firing them both makes sense. I'm pretty skeptical of that stuff, but I'd be fine with seeing what happens. Like I say, I just don't see how you're going to find someone who really is any better at running things than JP. I really do think that the more you look around, the more you realize that all GM's are pretty similar, with the rare idiot and the even rarer genius.

Joanna,I've only heard the inside baseball account...

2008-06-11T23:54:54.370-04:00

Joanna,I've only heard the inside baseball accounts of how the Red Sox and Yanks wanted or didn't want Ortiz.For example,Steinbrenner wanted Ortiz long before he was released and the Yankee brain trust didn't. As for the Pedro-Ortiz story,that's all good BUT the Theo/James /Lucchino brain trust had singled out certain people they could get that were undervalued(Moneyball) like Ortiz.So from what I've heard,they were aware of his existence bigtime before Pedro called .

Dt,I live in the NYC area which is a hardcore baseball area.I have to hear shit from Yankee fans about how they make the playoffs etc so on.You always hear about how great the pitching is but not the hitting.The Mets have more problems than the Jays,so they shut the fuck up only when they give some crazy trade proposal like Reyes for Wells and Marcum,crazy shit like that.It's frustrating because the Jays have so much potential and keep on pissing it away.And I don't think JP and Gibby are helping matters much.

Good call sarah . . . I like shitting on stoeten...

2008-06-11T23:37:36.525-04:00

Good call sarah . . .

I like shitting on stoeten too!

we need .670 ball outta this team here on out . . . 2/3+. Possible, but a good time to probably key down the hopes.

Anon, I'm not saying that it's impossible to compe...

2008-06-11T23:33:36.164-04:00

Anon, I'm not saying that it's impossible to compete on the Jays' budget - of course it's possible. It's possible to compete with much less of a budget too.

But, to address your specific examples

- Arizona wasn't exactly a low-budget operation when they won the World Series.

- The Marlins won their first series with a huge payroll, and their 2nd with the fruits of trading those guys away (along with lots of high draft picks)

- Ed Wade's regime drafted Howard, Burrell, Utley and Hamels. He's got a lot to do with how good that team is now.

Look, I'm frustrated too. It drives me nuts that this team can't make a serious run at the playoffs. I just don't really see what JP has done that's been terrible or what great other options are out there.

Like most other GM's he wins some and loses some, it's just happened that the Jays have had a lot of .500-ish seasons instead of a mix of good and bad. Most teams have years where everything goes right, and others where it all goes to shit, even with substantially the same personnel (see the 05 and 06 White Sox).

If you replace JP, you're not likely to find somewhere a whole lot better, and you run the risk of hiring the next Allard Baird or Cam Bonifay who will completely decimate the organization.

Joanna, I didn't know that about Ortiz. Thanks for...

2008-06-11T23:13:52.684-04:00

Joanna, I didn't know that about Ortiz. Thanks for sharing. Just goes to show how success in baseball has so much to do with pure luck as well as the controllable factors.

Stoeten. All I'm getting from this"Anyway, what sh...

2008-06-11T23:02:23.710-04:00

Stoeten. All I'm getting from this

"Anyway, what should have been a pair of easy series' went the way of blah blah blah the Jays suck blah blah blah blah fuck this team blah blah etc."

and this

"But... a lot of Jays fans seem prepared to believe the worst about the closer because he's cocked up three of the last four games (or whatever it is). Um... that's a bit ridiculous."

is this

Denial, denial, denial.

AJ also apologized, which is more than many a man ...

2008-06-11T22:47:46.783-04:00

AJ also apologized, which is more than many a man would do. I think that "What fans?" was taken out of context, and that people are just looking for more reasons to hate on him. More.

Beane needs a World Series. That should be the evaluator. But sure, he's a cut above.

As for Pedro and Ortiz. As per Ortiz's book. Ortiz was at dinner with Pedro when he got the call that he had been released by the Twins. He was losing his shit cause he was out of work and had just had a baby. Had lost his mother in a car accident in the same year. It was shitty for Ortiz. Pedro made a few calls, and suggested that the Sox management pick him up. When they did, Pedro requested that Ortiz play first base every game he started. If he wasn't in, Pedro would bitch. Bill James might have told Theo that maybe it wasn't such a bad idea, but Ortiz gives the credit to Martinez.

Go Orange.

Joanna,the hat tip was brlliant but AJ is still an...

2008-06-11T22:22:56.578-04:00

Joanna,the hat tip was brlliant but AJ is still an asshole.I loved it,when he said"What fans"!What a slap in the face of the bluebird faithful.BTW,Sabremetric genius Bill James suggested Ortiz from what I've heard not Pedro.

Dt,the Phightin Phils spend 95 million and look at how they are doing.They were missing the playoffs every year by almost one game and then finally they did it.They are not giving out a gazillion dollar bonuses.They got rid of their version of JP,Ed Wade after him missing the playoffs for over 7 years.I live in yankeeland so I know all about this slotting bullshit and the like,but Arizona and the Marlins beat them in the WS.They were not big market teams paying great bonuses ,etc.My point is that Ricciardi has had a long time to get into the playoffs and his time is coming to an end.Ricciardi said that this is a five year plan and where are the Jays.A new guy in the front office and a new manager will be needed as well.It sucks to hear all these pro Red Sox ,Yankee,Met assholes on ESPN comment how great the pitching is then tell you about the hitting....it sucks!

I learned a very important lesson at the game toda...

2008-06-11T22:21:17.747-04:00

I learned a very important lesson at the game today - do NOT go to an afternoon game when you're hungover and it's Teletoon kids day.

Joanna, you don't agree that Beane is a cut above ...

2008-06-11T22:14:11.201-04:00

Joanna, you don't agree that Beane is a cut above his peers?

Yep, good point. I was thinking about that the ot...

2008-06-11T22:13:32.699-04:00

Yep, good point. I was thinking about that the other day. When guys like Rick Porcello from last year or Gerrit Cole from this year become stars, everyone will talk about what great pickups they were late in the 1st round. It's not like their talent was a mystery, though.

Ortiz was Pedro's pick up. Theo just decided to l...

2008-06-11T21:57:27.128-04:00

Ortiz was Pedro's pick up. Theo just decided to leave insulting Pedro till after winning a WS.

And the Beane argument would be more valid if the A's played in the AL East.

And to the guy that left AJ off the list of good guys. The hat tip was awesome. And how do you know AJ is the only "asshole"?

yeah the draft is very broken with the whole slott...

2008-06-11T21:53:30.856-04:00

yeah the draft is very broken with the whole slotting system. it makes the yankees and red sox scouting staffs look a lot better than other teams when in reality they're just throwing more money around than anyone else - pretty much the same thing they've been doing in the free agent market since like forever

Damn Torgen, you beat me to the slot argument as t...

2008-06-11T21:49:04.628-04:00

Damn Torgen, you beat me to the slot argument as to why the Red Sox can get better prospects with lower picks.

dt: you also forgot that teams that go over slot c...

2008-06-11T21:32:31.788-04:00

dt: you also forgot that teams that go over slot can sign better guys than their low draft order would indicate. About the worst thing that could happen would be for the Jays to use their draft pick on a guy who wanted a $5M signing bonus that they couldn't afford to give him, or who just doesn't want to play in Toronto for 6 years.

I missed the first part of your reply when I read ...

2008-06-11T21:28:37.813-04:00

I missed the first part of your reply when I read it before.

- If you think that Wily Mo and Lugo were somehow intelligent or even acceptable move because their team won, then I can't say much to you. That's like saying the Reds are in last place, therefore drafting Jay Bruce was a mistake.

- Ortiz was obviously a great pickup. Just remember that they picked him up to use as a backup to Jeremy Giambi, so they didn't see his rise coming either.

- They have some nice young players, sure. A few, just like most teams. I'm a fan Marcum, Litsch and Hill, and I'm fairly excited to see Snider in the next couple of years.

ok, which one of you guys is this?http://www.youtu...

2008-06-11T21:22:02.876-04:00

ok, which one of you guys is this?
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fiu1yAt9g7Q

(my favourite: 'hey, quit writing down that percival's kid's birthday is may 9th!')